Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: browarod on June 01, 2015, 09:47:38 AM
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I initially wanted to keep this combo a secret and have it revealed after we finish the set, but I decided that I'd rather post it and get feedback on power (given that Daniel's and my last expansion had some pretty severely OP cards).
Nebuchadnezzar's Curse
Crimson Curse | Must be activated on your Nebuchadnezzar
"Your Nebuchadnezzar is treated as a 9/9 Animal with no special ability. If he successfully blocks you may discard him and the top 7 cards of deck (put Lost Souls in play instead) to search deck or discard pile for Nebuchadnezzar the Redeemed and put him in play. Cannot be negated."
~Daniel 4:32
Nebuchadnezzar the Redeemed
White/Purple Hero | 12/12 | Cannot enter play except by Nebuchadnezzar's Curse, Royalty, Babylonian King
"Protected from capture, conversion, and removal from the game. If this Hero makes a successful rescue attempt, you may add him to your Land of Redemption as an additional Redeemed Soul. Cannot be negated."
~Daniel 4:34
Things I feel balance the ability to become a redeemed soul:
-You have to keep both Nebby and the Curse alive for 7 turns, and Nebby is diminished in usefulness for that time losing his search/add to battle ability.
-Many T1 games don't even make it to 7 turns.
-Nebby's hero form is dual-brigade meaning you could only include 1 in a Type 1 deck or up to 2 in a Type 2 deck.
-Even having 2 in Type 2 it would require at least 14 turns to redeem both (given the duplicate unique character rule).
Possible things that could make it too powerful:
-Headquarters at Riblah protects Nebby from discard in territory.
-Nebby could be loaded into Kingdoms of the World to keep him safe. (this would make him vulnerable to fortress-destruction, however)
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Interesting ideas. JUST impossible enough to not be hacked. Perhaps add a clause, "and cannot be protected by fortresses."
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Interesting ideas. JUST impossible enough to not be hacked. Perhaps add a clause, "and cannot be protected by fortresses."
I hesitate to make either card more wordy, plus I feel like if Nebby has no protection then you're never going to pull off the combo. I don't want to make it too easy but I also don't want it to be impossible. I'm hoping it'll be doable enough that people who like combos will consider splashing it into their Babylonian defense and/or white or purple offense but not easy enough to make it a staple in every deck.
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Intriguing, but I think its actually a bit underwhelming. You're essentially giving your opponent 7 turns (if you even get to that) to figure out how to not lose a battle to him. During this time they can discard Nebby, the Curse, or save an auto-block for the new guy. Maybe a dedicated T2 deck could utilize this with enough support, but if it takes you 7 turns just to get one extra soul, there will probably be better ways to go about it. Might be a fun niche card that you could congratulate yourself if you were successful, but I just don't see the payoff being worth it as is.
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Intriguing, but I think its actually a bit underwhelming. You're essentially giving your opponent 7 turns (if you even get to that) to figure out how to not lose a battle to him. During this time they can discard Nebby, the Curse, or save an auto-block for the new guy. Maybe a dedicated T2 deck could utilize this with enough support, but if it takes you 7 turns just to get one extra soul, there will probably be better ways to go about it. Might be a fun niche card that you could congratulate yourself if you were successful, but I just don't see the payoff being worth it as is.
Is there a way to make it worth it without making it overpowered? I chose 7 turns because he went crazy for 7 years (iirc) but if a lower number would be better I could change it.
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Probably a change is needed. Otherwise, 7 is a LONG time.
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So, does anyone have any specific suggestions for sprucing this up a bit? I wanted to refrain from making it an alternate win condition, but maybe that would be what makes it useful enough for the lengthy timeframe?
I really like the base idea behind the combo, and I'm hoping to make it usable but not OP or UP.
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Sometimes making a card Biblically accurate and making it playable at the same time are nearly impossible. ;)
We have precedent to represent 7 years using 7 turns (see the DAEs in tin XXII). But unless you're gaining some kind of cumulative benefit over those 7 turns it's hard to make it worth while.
You might try to represent the 7 years in another way. Maybe discard your top 7 cards, or 7 cards from hand, or after your opponent draws 7 cards. Something that triggers off 7 that will be more likely to happen before the game is over.
We need more Daniel cards. It's really hard to make a playable Daniel deck!
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Thanks for the insight Gabe!
I've reworked the Curse to incorporate a card cost rather than a turn cost. I would value feedback on this version.
The discards and search are no longer regardless of protection, but you can search the Hero out after just 1 successful block (which is made more difficult as Nebby is a 9/9 with no special ability for that block). I included the Lost Soul clause to prevent this being a mechanism for soul drought.
We need more Daniel cards. It's really hard to make a playable Daniel deck!
In case my threads didn't hint it enough, Daniel (hilariously enough) and I are including a fair number of Daniel cards in our fan expansion (I count 18 at the moment, though some of those are evil). Maybe you will find some to inspire the PTB for the next set. ;)
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So, any thoughts at all on the reworked curse? I want to make sure I haven't made it too easy/costless now.
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So, any thoughts at all on the reworked curse? I want to make sure I haven't made it too easy/costless now.
Seems like it's worthy of play testing now. In my experience that's the only true way to tell if a card is balanced.
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So, any thoughts at all on the reworked curse? I want to make sure I haven't made it too easy/costless now.
Seems like it's worthy of play testing now. In my experience that's the only true way to tell if a card is balanced.
That's a good point, but it's promising that it's in a playtest-able form. ;)
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Not sure if you consider this a problem or not, but I can guarantee you that if I were to play this, I would use a CtB ability (either Jacob + 1/1 OoN, or Provisions on a small hero) and let my hero die to get Nebby his successful block.
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I don't consider that a problem because then that's a rescue attempt where you don't rescue a soul, which means the extra soul that Nebby the Redeemed would count as is just a replacement for the one you didn't get the turn you chose him to block, which just means you delayed that redeemed soul for at least 1 turn. In T1, at least, 1 turn can make a world of difference.
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It looks like Daniel cards just became more valuable (http://landofredemption.com/?p=1460)!