Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: jbeers285 on November 25, 2012, 12:10:05 AM
-
Purple/green
10/10
Protect all disciples in territory and set aside while Peter remains in play.
Search deck for Andrew. May band a red brigade disciple. CBN
I meant to have green not white (edited)
-
It's probably a bit OP to protect all Disciples in play. I suggest just protecting the territory and set-aside from evil cards so they can still be targeted in battle.
-
Yeah, there is no way to get rid of him with that protection.
-
Uh... no. This would be added to the ban-list almost immediately if not immediately... Gabe's suggestion would be a bit more viable. A hero protecting themselves non-negatably and protecting the hero they band too would be incredibly powerful, especially when the character's 10/10 and could use Hidden Treasures...
-
It's probably a bit OP to protect all Disciples in play. I suggest just protecting the territory and set-aside from evil cards so they can still be targeted in battle.
this was the intended idea just was posting in a rush and overlooked my wording thanks
edited
-
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi189.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz18%2FLambo_Diablo_Svtt%2FRedemption%2FPeter-2.jpg&hash=66604d59daeab4a42125e02e140affd6c79d8ff1)
-
What are they protected from?
-
lol my bad again i need to slow down and focus a little more tonight lol protected from opponent's cards
-
Image updated accordingly.
-
thanks for the image lambo
-
I don't think Peter should band to a Red brigade disciple. Simon the Zealot shouldn't have anyone band to him; Peter should band to only Andrew (who should be reprinted in Purple).
In fact, should Andrew band to Peter? I'm trying to remember what the reasoning was to have certain Disciples as the bander and the other with no banding ability. Perhaps Bryon or another playtester can share some insight on that.
I don't think Peter should search for Andrew; Philip already tutors Bartholomew. And in the tradition of Samuel/Ezekiel/etc., Peter should probably not be able to play Authority of Christ preblock with Hidden Treasures.
My suggestion, based on your original card, and trying to prevent two large CBN bands in the same theme:
"Negate play abilities. Protect Disciples in territory and set-aside from discard while Peter remains in play. May band to Andrew. Cannot be prevented."
-
Or the card could say search deck or discard pile for andrew and band him into battle
Protect disciples in set aside and territory while Peter and Andrew remain in play.
CBN
This would stop Peter from playing off of HT in a disciples deck bc you would play Andrew for the protection
-
I don't doubt there's game potential here, but what scriptural idea is there behind Peter protecting the disciples? For the myriad things Peter characterizes and has done, I don't see protection as one of them. Here's some ideas from the Bible.
Just a brainstorm session off the top of my head...
(I'm not even pretending this is a complete list)
Jesus' Lifetime
His brother Andrew invited Peter to meet the Messiah
Peter, James, and John were the "inner circle" (With Jesus at the Mount of Transfiguration, Jairius' House, Gethsemane, etc.)
Quick to Speak and Act (i.e. "I believe You are the Christ!", "Surely not Lord!" "Speak Plainly!")
Used to help establish the church ("and the Gates of Hell shall not overcome...")
Denied Christ 3 Times, and was "Reinstated" 3 Times
Early Church
Spoke out boldly at Pentecost
Healed a Lame Man at the Temple
Delivered from Prisons (current ability)
He stood before the Sanhedrin boldly and said "we must obey God, not men"
Confronted Ananias & Sapphira
Healed Aeneas who could not walk, raised Tabitha from the Dead
Was involved as the Holy Spirit and Salvation were extended to the Gentiles (Cornelius' Household)
Wrote I & II Peter (his second letter dealing much with Prophecy)
Ultimately Martyred, as Jesus prophesied "when you are old... you will stretch out your hands"
-
I agree with Red Warrior, and remember we already have a Character that Protects everything else... And we don't need another Thad...
One suggestion to keep Peter from using AoCP via HT is to have it that he can use Green Enhancements but doesn't have Green Brigade or just Negate Artifacts.
-
Frankly, I don't see Peter playing AoCp off of HT as a particularly big deal. ET can do it without HT at all, and the card I would argue is the most common to negate Heroes right now (CwD) would stop Peter anyway. Plus, Paul can do it almost as easily as Peter could do it, using only one extra card, which many Disciples/Gardensciples decks already use (Grail).
-
Well the problem is that the next John reprint may also be Green, and that would make 2 Disciples able to pull it off Pre-block.
-
Question: Why would peter protect the other disciples? Another disciple was killed while he was in the vicinity.
-
Well the problem is that the next John reprint may also be Green, and that would make 2 Disciples able to pull it off Pre-block.
Again, I don't see much of a problem here. ET and Paul both already do that, and neither one is really too horribly out of place in a Disciples deck. I'm thinking about T2 as well, and I still don't see this as a big deal.
-
I think the problem is AoCP/spiritual warfare/two bears and various other things preblock that become a bit out-of-hand. No sense in making the disciples any stronger than they are now especially when you consider adding in TGT and the damage they already do and consider Peter and John are part of the TGT dilemma. I disagree strongly.
Another issue is, what's with all the reprints??? Why not make NEW cards that enhance existing cards. (ex. as Angel Under the Oak is to Gideon)...
-
Also, Holy Grail + Proud Pharisee allows for a pre-block AoCp. Still, I doubt we will print a Peter that can abuse Hidden Treasures.
-
If we don't want Peter to use Hidden Treasures just don't make him green, just because he is a prophet doesn't mean he has to be green, besides he didn't do all that much prophesying (that is recorded anyway) so why not have him just purple?
Also I like the idea of Peter actually having a play ability attached to him (just make sure it wouldn't include AoCp) Andrew should be the one banding to Peter, since it was usually the less famous disciple of each pair that did the banding (James to John not the other way around) and to combine it with the fact that Andrew brought Peter to Jesus, I think the band should be that way. The thing about Gates of Hell is also an interesting idea, how about something like:
Peter 10/10 Purple
Reveal the bottom card of opponents deck, if it is evil discard it, if it is a lost soul put it in play. After blocker is presented you may play an enhancement with Peter in the title or reference.
This covers the Gates of Hell thing, the impulsiveness and his evangelism.
-
Well the problem is that the next John reprint may also be Green, and that would make 2 Disciples able to pull it off Pre-block.
Again, I don't see much of a problem here. ET and Paul both already do that, and neither one is really too horribly out of place in a Disciples deck. I'm thinking about T2 as well, and I still don't see this as a big deal.
The problem though is that they don't really fit in that well with Disciples, and neither would be able to use the Disciples' other battle winners, both Peter and John can. I agree with not having him half-green since he did so little prophesying at all. John (if he's reprinted at some point) should end up half green though, but with ways to stop him from using HT.
I'm sortof okay with ChristianSoilder's suggestion, because its much more unique for the theme... But Im not sure I'd like that one either too. We also have to remember that TGT gives Peter an ignore ability as well.
-
Why does every half-green character have to be stripped of HT?
-
Why does every half-green character have to be stripped of HT?
Joseph
-
Yep, Joe doesn't have enough fun stuff to play pre-battle. Anyone who does... Doesn't get to enjoy HT unless its just prophets...
EDIT: sorry, accidentally modified your post instead of starting a new one. :P
-
Yep, Joe doesn't have enough fun stuff to play pre-battle. Anyone who does... Doesn't get to enjoy HT unless its just prophets...
RTC (CBN), Creation of the World and OoN aren't enough? ::)
-
Many decks can find ways around RTC and CoTW is okay, but gives easy win for Goliath too. What's OoN?
-
Many decks can find ways around RTC and CoTW is okay, but gives easy win for Goliath too. What's OoN?
Obedience of Noah, it's a choose the rescuer.
The thing about Joseph is that any blue card he can play prebattle Jacob could play prebattle several years ago and any card green card any green prophet could play with HT.
-
joe + spiritual warfare
joe + two bears
Joe + RTC
Joe + Obedience of Noah
Joe + Creation of the World
Plenty of pre-block stuff, and not too over powered where as you start adding in other brigades pre-block (purple especially!) and it gets out of hand
-
Plenty of pre-block stuff, and not too over powered where as you start adding in other brigades pre-block (purple especially!) and it gets out of hand
So Paul + HT is OP?
-
There was also some kind of combo with Aaron I think that allowed him to play any enhancement off HT.
-
There was also some kind of combo with Aaron I think that allowed him to play any enhancement off HT.
It was only OT cards (if I'm remembering the combo correctly) it was using a temple with Table of Showbread (I think that is the one) to hold an OT enhancement and let a priest play it regardless of brigade.
-
Plenty of pre-block stuff, and not too over powered where as you start adding in other brigades pre-block (purple especially!) and it gets out of hand
So Paul + HT is OP?
Paul isn't very easy to get out and it takes even longer to get him and HT out together. Plenty of time for Opponent to win the game.
As to the Genesis theme, it's like what Selfevident said, they had Jacob long ago so it's not like most Blue cards where made to be OP when used Pre-block. And even with Joe being able to use green, not all of their Enhancements are that great either for Pre-block beyond Warfare, Search and a handful of others. Most are better for in Battle uses.
The only thing I'd hate to see is Gardensciples get the ability to play Two Bears as well. Can anyone else think of another way to make TGT more effective that easily?
-
Paul is pretty easy to get out (evil character + Grail). The only decks who use him tend to be heroless though, and that makes all sorts of other cards necessary before being able to safely put him down. Few have seriously tried him in a deck.
So what enhancements are so great for Paul to play preblock?
The only thing I'd hate to see is Gardensciples get the ability to play Two Bears as well. Can anyone else think of another way to make TGT more effective that easily?
Simeon (di) can be splashed in pretty easily, it just generally isn't worth it because nobody plays defense (except magicians) anyway.
Oh, and AOCP>Two Bears any day. There's ET for that.
-
But Paul doesn't also have a deck based on giving him a Pre-block ignore. Also, if Paul dies, you aren't getting him back at all. Plus you'd have to wait at least 2 turns to get the 3-card combo just to use HT at very least. Peter would not, he can do it in 1 turn plus he can come back plus he can quickly ignore brigades.
What I am saying is have Characters that are commonly used in the deck (like Peter and John) the ability to shuffle cards to cause TGT to work better then it already does. There's already fairly good argument that it is OP. I'd suggest not making it worse.
-
But Paul doesn't also have a deck based on giving him a Pre-block ignore. Also, if Paul dies, you aren't getting him back at all. Plus you'd have to wait at least 2 turns to get the 3-card combo just to use HT at very least. Peter would not, he can do it in 1 turn plus he can come back plus he can quickly ignore brigades.
What I am saying is have Characters that are commonly used in the deck (like Peter and John) the ability to shuffle cards to cause TGT to work better then it already does. There's already fairly good argument that it is OP. I'd suggest not making it worse.
Paul is pretty easy to keep alive, and most people don't even run Chariots of Fire in decks that use Peter and John. Brass Serpent is occasionally used, but Herod's Temple is usually enough, which Paul also has access to.
Paul can do it on the first turn. WatW + Meeting the Messiah, Angel of the Lord + Healing of Namaan, you get the point. Obviously this takes more cards, but hey, it's unlikely that preblock anything will be effective right off the bat. You don't even know what they're playing. What do you ignore? What do you shuffle? Nothing. Your opponent doesn't even have a redeemed soul for TGT to work yet.
But enough about Paul. This is about whether a green John/Peter that doesn't negate Hidden Treasures is OP or not, and honestly you've only presented one enhancement that would be easily added in for extra power (because AoCP is already in there preblock and Spiritual Warfare is lulzy in a TGT deck), but I'm still unconvinced Two Bears preblock is OP. The only advantage that it really has over AOCP is that it's harder to protect from in territory, but nobody really uses territory protection {or defense [at least one that can block TGT (looking at you, Magicians)]!} at this point.
Honestly, IMO, TGT doesn't really need help destroying territories. It needs help speeding through it's deck. Green isn't a fast brigade. Disciples are. That's why (most) people use Gardenciples--Fishing Boat, Pentecost, Matthew, and 4 Drachma Coin. Added power isn't necessary. Yes, it can be considered OP because nobody can block TGT. Adding territory destruction power doesn't make it more powerful--it does that just fine on it's own, especially because most defenses don't use territory protection, or simply don't exist (and simply use Uzzah blocks). I suppose HT + AoCP might be used so you can use TGT with the preblock AoCP (unlike ET) but it really isn't a big deal most of the time.
If anything, Peter and John would become uber because of Obediah's Caves, not HT. Caves + Herod's Temple + TGT = an unstoppable force.