Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Gabe on September 27, 2016, 12:54:33 PM
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We've had a lot of excellent name suggestions (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/hero-name-player-created-card-part-ii/) for our player created card!
You guys came up with a lot of good suggestions! I've included almost all of them, omitting some that have not business being a Hero.
Let the voting begin!!!
What is this about? (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/player-created-card/)
**Edit: voting runs for exactly 7 days from this posting.
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Do you think we could take the top 5 in a couple days and then do a more
Focused revote? I am afraid 6 votes for hero may be enough to get the win while 40 + votes are cast.
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+1 That seems like a really good idea.
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Do you think we could take the top 5 in a couple days and then do a more
Focused revote? I am afraid 6 votes for hero may be enough to get the win while 40 + votes are cast.
The poll is set so that people can change their vote. If, for example, you vote for Behemoth (not really a Hero ;)) and see that it is not going to win, you can change your vote to Tom, Dik or Harry (the top 3 vote getters) so that you have more of a say in the final outcome.
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Yeah, but with no cutoff for the first and second voting phases, there is no real reason the winner of the first...actually, come to think of it, when does voting end?
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Yeah, but with no cutoff for the first and second voting phases, there is no real reason the winner of the first...actually, come to think of it, when does voting end?
November 8th at 8 PM.
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PSA: Voluntary runoff begins on the 5th.
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Behemoth (not really a Hero ;)
What's not heroic about a creature held up as the pinnacle of strength and God's design? It's put in a positive light all the way through the passage. Are you suggesting it should be an evil character?
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Behemoth (not really a Hero ;)
What's not heroic about a creature held up as the pinnacle of strength and God's design? It's put in a positive light all the way through the passage. Are you suggesting it should be an evil character?
It's because it's an animal. By game rule it can't be a hero. It wouldn't make much sense for an animal to bring a person to know Christ. ;)
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All right, here’s my campaign to make Jehu a Hero.
Jehu was anointed by Elijah under God’s directive
1 Kings 19:16-17 “Also, anoint Jehu son of Nimshi king over Israel, and anoint Elisha son of Shaphat from Abel Meholah to succeed you as prophet. Jehu will put to death any who escape the sword of Hazael, and Elisha will put to death any who escape the sword of Jehu.
Jehu was given orders by God to carry out judgment on Ahab’s family
2 Kings 9:6-10 “I anoint you king over the LORD’s people Israel. You are to destroy the house of Ahab your master, and I will avenge the blood of my servants the prophets and the blood of all the LORD’s servants shed by Jezebel. The whole house of Ahab will perish. I will cut off from Ahab every last male in Israel—slave or free. I will make the house of Ahab like the house of Jeroboam son of Nebat and like the house of Baasha son of Ahijah. As for Jezebel, dogs will devour her on the plot of ground at Jezreel, and no one will bury her.’”
He carried out those orders fully
2 Kings 9, 10
2 Kings 10:17 “When Jehu came to Samaria, he killed all who were left there of Ahab’s family; he destroyed them, according to the word of the LORD spoken to Elijah.”
He was commended by God for accomplishing what God had directed him to do
2 Kings 10:30 “The LORD said to Jehu, "Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the fourth generation."
He had tremendous zeal for the Lord
2 Kings 10:16 “Jehu said, ‘Come with me and see my zeal for the LORD.’ Then he had him ride along in his chariot.”
He messed up – like every other Hero in the Bible
2 Kings 10:29 “However, he did not turn away from the sins of Jeroboam son of Nebat, which he had caused Israel to commit—the worship of the golden calves at Bethel and Dan.”
And 2 Kings 10:31 “Yet Jehu was not careful to keep the law of the LORD, the God of Israel, with all his heart. He did not turn away from the sins of Jeroboam, which he had caused Israel to commit.”
He gets one more mention in the book of Hosea
Hosea 1:4 “Then the LORD said to Hosea, ‘Call him Jezreel, because I will soon punish the house of Jehu for the massacre at Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of Israel. In that day I will break Israel’s bow in the Valley of Jezreel.’”
Note that this is not a direct attack on Jehu – only on the house of Jehu – and serves as a warning to Israel. Check out this possible interpretation of the Hosea passage http://christianthinktank.com/qjehu.html (http://christianthinktank.com/qjehu.html)
Redemption would do well to acknowledge Jehu as a Hero
How many Bible Heroes get commended by directly by God? The big idea of the story of Jehu is that he was commissioned by God to destroy the evil family of Ahab infesting the land. He victoriously accomplished that (in dramatic fashion), and annihilated the influence of Baal from all of Israel (2 Kings 10:28). Yes, he messed up, but he was much more heroic in this than King Saul, who got both a Hero card and an Evil Character card. At the very least, Jehu deserves the same treatment :) This would be a great opportunity to make a brand new Hero instead of just another remake.
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Behemoth (not really a Hero ;)
What's not heroic about a creature held up as the pinnacle of strength and God's design? It's put in a positive light all the way through the passage. Are you suggesting it should be an evil character?
It's because it's an animal. By game rule it can't be a hero. It wouldn't make much sense for an animal to bring a person to know Christ. ;)
Yeah, that probably makes sense ...
How 'bout a neutral creature that can taunt Evil Characters ;D
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Behemoth (not really a Hero ;)
What's not heroic about a creature held up as the pinnacle of strength and God's design? It's put in a positive light all the way through the passage. Are you suggesting it should be an evil character?
It's because it's an animal. By game rule it can't be a hero. It wouldn't make much sense for an animal to bring a person to know Christ. ;)
Yeah, that probably makes sense ...
How 'bout a neutral creature that can taunt Evil Characters ;D
;D lol yes that would be great! It would work great in job decks!
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I voted for a different Hero, but I could definitely get on board with a dual alignment King Jehu. 8)
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I'd like to see a Jehu reprint that's a DAC like King Saul.
First post updated so everyone knows when voting closes.
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:bump:
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It saddens me that the current front-runner is a character that already has a strong and good Hero card while so many characters that aren't even in the game yet are getting passed over. Such is the nature of popularity contests, but I'd still much prefer to see pretty much anyone else on the list get a card over Paul.
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We do not need another Paul
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It saddens me that the current front-runner is a character that already has a strong and good Hero card while so many characters that aren't even in the game yet are getting passed over. Such is the nature of popularity contests, but I'd still much prefer to see pretty much anyone else on the list get a card over Paul.
Make a compelling argument for one and I will change my vote.
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Case for Jonah.
Jonah's bible story is iconic. Card stinks. (7/5 Blue Hero no SA)
Case Against Paul.
He just got literally 3-5 cards for his theme.
HE ACTUALLY DOES SOMETHING GOOD AND HE'S THEMATIC!
Why should we remake an actually viable hero at this moment. Why don't we make Jonah, or Redeemer, or literally anything but an ALREADY VIABLE CHARACTER.
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VOTE ESTHER!
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VOTE ESTHER!
Why? You might have missed the "compelling argument" part.
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It saddens me that the current front-runner is a character that already has a strong and good Hero card while so many characters that aren't even in the game yet are getting passed over. Such is the nature of popularity contests, but I'd still much prefer to see pretty much anyone else on the list get a card over Paul.
I agree - I think that if we are making this based on what the game needs most, then Elisha should be the choice. I can't think of a more major Bible character having no special ability at all. I changed my vote to him from Micaiah, who would be awesome but isn't as needed as Elisha. Elisha was a MAJOR prophet, and is referred to on 4 Redemption cards (House of Rimmon, Struck with Blindness, Elijah, and Night Raid).
After Elisha, the greatest-need Heroes in my opinion are Jonah, Adam, Deborah, and Mary.
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Anyone see a Paul deck at nats? Not me. The current Paul is unreliable. I'd like to see a more usable Paul because so many cards are tied to him. As for other characters, I'd like to see them get reprinted too and they all will someday. If anything TPTB will see what characters we want to see and maybe they will get attention in the next set. Who knows?
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It saddens me that the current front-runner is a character that already has a strong and good Hero card while so many characters that aren't even in the game yet are getting passed over. Such is the nature of popularity contests, but I'd still much prefer to see pretty much anyone else on the list get a card over Paul.
I agree - I think that if we are making this based on what the game needs most, then Elisha should be the choice. I can't think of a more major Bible character having no special ability at all. I changed my vote to him from Micaiah, who would be awesome but isn't as needed as Elisha. Elisha was a MAJOR prophet, and is referred to on 4 Redemption cards (House of Rimmon, Struck with Blindness, Elijah, and Night Raid).
After Elisha, the greatest-need Heroes in my opinion are Jonah, Adam, Deborah, and Mary.
I don't think it is a good idea to make him on his own. It should be Elijah and Elisha together if they are going to be made. My vote: Watchman!
Although, i wouldn't mind jonah or adam either.
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I don't think it is a good idea to make him on his own. It should be Elijah and Elisha together if they are going to be made. My vote: Watchman!
I agree a Elijah-Elisha combo card would be so cool! 8)
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Anyone see a Paul deck at nats? Not me. The current Paul is unreliable. I'd like to see a more usable Paul because so many cards are tied to him. As for other characters, I'd like to see them get reprinted too and they all will someday. If anything TPTB will see what characters we want to see and maybe they will get attention in the next set. Who knows?
I used one and my deck went 4-3. I think I only got one rescue and a block from him, his large numbers make it too easy to get initiative against him.
My argument for Paul would be that he is one of the most compelling characters of the N.T. However, we gave him a card that requires support card just to get him active, and after that he usually just loses to chump blocks or cbn enhancements (assuming coliseum is not in play). As a result I rarely see him played. Then we have cards like Moses (salt alert) that was already a staple card (imo) and then gets buffed by adding two brigades letting him negate lost souls as well and giving him territory class. I think Paul deserves to at least be buffed to being a staple in N.T. themes.
However, we also have lots of good other choices like Esther (God's instrument in saving Israel) and Elisha and Elijah that deserve to get good cards as well.
My logic in this is cards like Paul are less likely to see a reprint because there are cards like Esther, Elisha, and all the other cards on the list that have yet to see a good reprint that the playtesters are probably planning on making at least a small handful of these in the next set.
Just a few of my thoughts, not sure who I'm voting for though.
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VOTE ESTHER!
Why? You might have missed the "compelling argument" part.
wasn't directed towards you.
Vote for Queen Esther!!
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The reason I think Paul should be the card is the same reason Moses got a reprint. The old Moses was a good card, and people even played it a lot (Already better off than Paul) but he is such an important and unique character in the Bible while his card was just a another random FTBN dude whose only saving grace was he happened to have a judge identifier. Now we have Paul. He is a super important and unique dude from the Bible, and he has the same problem as old Moses, except worse. He has boring stats and a straightforward ability you can find on half a dozen other Heros. In his case, it's actually worse on him than most others because his large numbers don't give him the chance to play an enhancement and take advantage of his ability like other enhancements-are-cbn characters can. Sure he has rainbow brigade and that's kinda neat, but especially these days when having lots of brigades can be punished quite hard, it really isn't that good. When you think about it, it isn't actually unique either. There a lots of character that have ways to allow themselves to use enhancements of any brigade, and those guys aren't getting played either. On top of all this, a new Paul would give an excellent opportunity to make the Pharisee side of him much more powerful. Before his conversion he did plenty to deserve a better Evil Character side than a vanilla 10/11. The only good argument I can see against making Paul here is that because of the new Paul cards they made recently, the card designers might be planning on making Paul on their own.
That said if I had to pick a second choice it would be Elijah and Elisha, although I think they would definitely need to be made together.
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I agree with Browa, I think I'd rather see any other Hero get a reprint than Paul. He's already got cards built around his current card. I don't want a Paul that can be laid down immediately as a Hero, like King Saul. For his ability right now, he's already quite strong. CBN enhancements of any color is amazing, and with Coliseum it's even stronger. It's one of those rare cases where the power level of the card is balanced by the fact that it must be converted from a lower-than average EC. And I don't want another Moses-level Hero as of this moment. :P
For the other Heroes on the voting list, I could see several (Jonah, Elisha & Elijah, Deborah, Adam, Esther, Mary, Jonathan) as easily getting their own cards someday, via a tin or as part of a set (especially Jonah, Esther, Mary, and E & E). There's no question about this.
I would much rather see something like "Redeemer", "The Lord's Servant", "The Watchman", or even a named character like Jabez (not convinced Thief should be a Hero) become a playable card. These cards may not fit as easily as most of the others, and they may never even be made at all, if not for something like this.
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Vote for Paul! :-)
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So isn't the "watchman" Ezekiel?
Ezekiel 33:7 (ESV) "So you, son of man, I have made a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me."
With the use of "son of man," the character could certainly be taken in the direction of prophecy about Jesus. I guess I am just curious what direction this card will go. I don't think that Green O.T. Prophets needs a boost nearly as much as say, White N.T. Women (i.e. Mary, mother of Jesus). The reality is though, as Xonathan put it, we are not fixing every hole there is, we are just making them obvious so that future sets can address them. There is not a much at stake with this one card is all I am getting at. I think that for a character to represent the text above, perhaps "The Watchman" should be "Ezekiel, the Watchman" instead. There are three Ezekiel cards (Teal, Green/Teal, Purple) already and none of them see play to my knowledge. He is a Prophet and Priest which lends itself to some fairly powerful cards already. Giving him a useful ability will make him the fourth Ezekiel card to not see play, but giving him a great ability might mean more Green/Teal decks see play competitively. Just my thoughts.
Oh, I changed my vote to The Watchman...
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Here is my case for Paul.
First, Paul is one of the greatest biblical heroes in the bible. Also, he represents the salvation story. He was in opposition of the gospel and the transformed by the power of the Spirit. He then became the voice of the gospel. This is just like how we are dead in sin and then transferred from death to life in Christ.
Second, we get to the game aspect. Paul seems like a great hero at face value, but is hard to pull off in a game. Here are some of the problems:
(1) Paul is not a standalone hero. He requires support cards to make him function. This might not be bad if not for the second problem.
(2) Paul is not a top tier hero. Making enhancements CBN might be great if not for his numbers. A 10/10 almost never gets initiative. When cards like SSS, Confusion, and DOtU are some of the top evil enhancements, this make big numbers unattractive. Also, he is multibrigade. Paul would mainly only need clay brigade. This is the brigade all of his support is in. When there are more and more things that punish lots of brigades, this is more of a disbenefit. The fact of the matter is that Paul’s ability is not good enough to make him playable competitively.
I personally would like to see a Moses level of power for N.T. heroes with Paul.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/Smileys/default/grin.gif
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Ignore that Link at the bottom. I am new to the boards and failed at putting in an emoji.
Sorry! (facepalm)
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Even though I voted for Paul, the others have made compelling arguments against him being selected. However, should he be chosen I'd like to see him as a three color hero. Clay/Purple /Green, these colors (my opinion ),Clay as its the early church colors,purple as he is considered to be part of the remade 12 disciples and green as he was considered a prophet for the Lord or he made prophecies . Too bad we don't have a author card yet :)
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So isn't the "watchman" Ezekiel?
Ezekiel 33:7 (ESV) "So you, son of man, I have made a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me."
With the use of "son of man," the character could certainly be taken in the direction of prophecy about Jesus. I guess I am just curious what direction this card will go. I don't think that Green O.T. Prophets needs a boost nearly as much as say, White N.T. Women (i.e. Mary, mother of Jesus). The reality is though, as Xonathan put it, we are not fixing every hole there is, we are just making them obvious so that future sets can address them. There is not a much at stake with this one card is all I am getting at. I think that for a character to represent the text above, perhaps "The Watchman" should be "Ezekiel, the Watchman" instead. There are three Ezekiel cards (Teal, Green/Teal, Purple) already and none of them see play to my knowledge. He is a Prophet and Priest which lends itself to some fairly powerful cards already. Giving him a useful ability will make him the fourth Ezekiel card to not see play, but giving him a great ability might mean more Green/Teal decks see play competitively. Just my thoughts.
Oh, I changed my vote to The Watchman...
#makeezekielgreatagain ;)
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Paul, exactly.. who is the greatest hero in the Bible who sees the least play?
Paul.. He is virtually useless. There is no deck with him in it at the moment seeing competitive play. I saw 1 Saul/Paul in 1 T2 deck this year, which cost him the game because I got multiple D9s off of him and was easily able to remove him from the game after he cost multiple cards to convert and even get in to play.
Case for the Watchman..
We REALLY need more OT Prophets and Judges to see more play lol.. *Cough* Moses. The OT Prophets already have a slew of champions that are truly great and competitive.
Paul should be not only a playable hero but a key component to offenses (as I believe was the original intention behind his current rendition).. He tells the Redemption story! OT and NT prophets alike. Clay Peter is THE ROCK! and in nearly every clay offense for a reason!
Really happy to have this opportunity to vote for a hero this is fun whoever is voted for in the end :)
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Arguement for Adam: who here has a decent Genisis deck that INCLLUDES Adam in it? If he was buffed then him and Eve may make a legitimate combo used in many decks.
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Huh. It seems we have a tie lol.
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Anyone can change their vote last minute
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Not anymore.
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Voting closed two hours ago.
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So, would anyone who voted for either "The Watchman" or "Paul" consider changing their vote now if they could? Just curious...
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The Winner:
Paul, the Watchman
"Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh."
Philippians 3:2
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The Winner:
Paul, the Watchman
"Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh."
Philippians 3:2
"Protect Paul from dogs, evil men, and mutilators"
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The Winner:
Paul, the Watchman
"Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh."
Philippians 3:2
"Protect Paul from dogs, evil men, and mutilators"
Protect Paul from animals and evil male humans. Paul cannot be blocked by mobs or armies.
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so now what? two cards
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so now what? two cards
Tie breaker vote maybe, that's what I want.
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Gabe said there would be another poll with just the top choices from this one.
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only sixteen votes to break the tie...
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Vote Paul!
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Paul clay/green hero 7/2 prophet missionary apostle
You may draw 2 cards. Negate evil characters and evil enhancements. Cannot be negated.
I see this equalizing the meta between ot and nt let's be honest Redemption was in desperate need of the early church and the persecuted church along with the cloud of witnesses faith enhancements to make it to top cut. Paul functioning as an nt auto initiative hero and one sided fbtn hero is a great addition to making nt and clay more competitive, plus could serve in a prophets offense being very versatile. Speed is a huge factor in this game there were maybe 6 throne decks in top cut for a reason I find myself and others often rescuing with draw options which I don't see at all as a bad thing(drawing gets you to your strategies and strategies are fun) considering how lightening fast throne is, the variety of draw options judges have had, and the competitive speed of disciples.
I'd really like to see what other people think Paul could potentially be! Post your ideas for him! :-)
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I don't know but if I could change my vote- I would change it to Paul.
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Paul clay/green hero 7/2 prophet missionary apostle
You may draw 2 cards. Negate evil characters and evil enhancements. Cannot be negated.
Make it territorial class and reliant on all of your heroes being N.T. and then you have Paul!
That would be balanced!
:-)
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Paul clay/green hero 7/2 prophet missionary apostle
You may draw 2 cards. Negate evil characters and evil enhancements. Cannot be negated.
I see this equalizing the meta between ot and nt let's be honest Redemption was in desperate need of the early church and the persecuted church along with the cloud of witnesses faith enhancements to make it to top cut. Paul functioning as an nt auto initiative hero and one sided fbtn hero is a great addition to making nt and clay more competitive, plus could serve in a prophets offense being very versatile. Speed is a huge factor in this game there were maybe 6 throne decks in top cut for a reason I find myself and others often rescuing with draw options which I don't see at all as a bad thing(drawing gets you to your strategies and strategies are fun) considering how lightening fast throne is, the variety of draw options judges have had, and the competitive speed of disciples.
I'd really like to see what other people think Paul could potentially be! Post your ideas for him! :-)
That's way too boring. I don't want more cards with negate this draw x cannot be negated. Well designed cards aren't just a good power level, they should be unique effects that force you and your opponent to play differently (Like Moses).
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yeah i mean i asked people to share their ideas but my post got -1s instead lol XD
i'll give you + 1 for your creativity!
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It was only a joke. I would also like cool and unique ability.
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How do I change my vote?
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There is a new thread will a new poll of just Paul and the Watchman.