Author Topic: Had to chuckle at myself...  (Read 4588 times)

Offline The Guardian

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Had to chuckle at myself...
« on: February 22, 2011, 02:40:18 AM »
+10
So I ran across some notes and comments in an old notebook that I took on the TexP set while playtesting way back when. I didn't do much playtesting with TexP mainly due to a lack of time, but I would submit comments now and then.

A few notes in particular made me chuckle... (To be fair to myself, I made these comments without ever trying the cards in a playtest deck).

"Grapes of Wrath--not good enough for a dominant"

"Mayhem--just another Harvest Time for Multi-player games..."

:P


« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 02:43:01 AM by The Guardian »
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 06:13:51 PM »
+8
"Doubt - Possibly needs to be nerfed, too many uses"
"Uzzah - Too costly and situational"
"The Garden Tomb - Too difficult to use, will not see competitive play"

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 06:26:01 PM »
+1
My first thoughts on reading TGT (real thoughts):

Wow, this card needs so much extra work to do anything.

Offline Isildur

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 06:46:39 PM »
0
It was fun to find some old Priests playtesting cards from back before Teal and Orange were brigades lol
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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 10:30:44 PM »
-1
"Gates of Hell--too high of cost."

Offline Gabe

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 11:24:23 PM »
+3
"Thad - this guy is too weak, nobody will play him, let's make it CBI."
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2011, 11:27:18 PM »
0
We totally didn't say that about him.... I'm pretty sure he was CBI through most of the proccess, we just expanded what his ability targeted near the end.
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Offline Isildur

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2011, 11:48:09 PM »
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"Thad - this guy is too weak, nobody will play him, let's make it CBI."
No see thats what happened to Z Temple lol
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Offline CJSports

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 03:52:14 PM »
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We totally didn't say that about him.... I'm pretty sure he was CBI through most of the proccess, we just expanded what his ability targeted near the end.
"Thad - this guy is too weak, nobody will play him, let's make it CBI."
Not sure but I think Gabe's was sarcastic but I could be wrong. This is not sarcastic BTW.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 09:04:15 PM »
0
Gabe's being serious, actually, that's what happened during playtesting.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 10:36:09 PM »
0
How can I sign up for playtesting?
Also, All of those are hilarious! GoW not good enough? And Mayhem basically another HT?
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2011, 10:37:25 PM »
0
Gabe's being serious, actually, that's what happened during playtesting.

What was the SA before you boosted it into the stratosphere?
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Offline Bryon

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2011, 11:33:18 PM »
0
Thaddeus v 1.0
47.   CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = the number of good disciples you have in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Immune to evil characters with toughness (/*) less than X.  May use good N.T. enhancements regardless of brigade.
SCRIPTURE: Luke 6:13-16
FREQUENCY: A
ARTIST: same

Thaddeus v 2.0 - To counter Uzzah:
64.        CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = # of your good disciples in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Disciples, Artifacts, and Lost Souls are immune to evil characters with toughness (/*) less than X.
SCRIPTURE: And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Luke 6:13-16
FREQUENCY:  
ARTIST: same

Thaddeus v 3.0 - after complaints that no one would use him, we added "cannot be interrupted."  Includes reference change to Matthew to match the disciple that bands to him:
64.        CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = # of your good disciples in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Protect Neutral cards, heroes, and all your cards from evil characters with toughness (/*) X or less.  Cannot be interrupted.    
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Matthew 10:2-3
FREQUENCY:  
ARTIST: same

Thaddeus v4.0 - the step too far:
64.        CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = # of your good disciples in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Protect all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness (/*) X or less. Cannot be interrupted.    
SCRIPTURE:  Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Matthew 10:2-3
FREQUENCY:  
ARTIST: new art – Georges de la Tour

Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2011, 11:51:38 PM »
0
Yeah, I think V3.0 would have been the happy medium.  As it is, Thaddeus is a huge late game problem with few answers. 
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2011, 12:14:42 AM »
0
I thought that at one point I'd suggested "All cards not in battle" to be protected, to shorten the ability considerably. I think it was between V3 and V4.

It's basically what it is anyway.
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Offline Bryon

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2011, 12:22:54 AM »
0
I don't see heroes as "huge late game problems."  Heroes are supposed to win in the late game.  But I agree that Thaddeus is too strong even in midgame if cards fall right.  That is the balance problem with him.  Prepare for a few answers next set.

ECs that you can't ever beat, insurmountable site lock, the inability to attack for the rest of the game, lots of timed out games... THOSE are the "huge problems" if they happen often.

Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2011, 12:41:50 AM »
0
...insurmountable site lock,...

Which begs the question....what were you all thinking when you made cesarea Philipi?

I dont have a problem with any of the other sites, even Nazereth which attacks my beloved ANB decks.  But there are not enough counters to Cesarea philipi, and you have to play them within only a few brigades.  This really makes Site lock and a NT defense for that matter, very powerful.

I really dont like the trend of sites becoming mini fortresses.  often now people put the sites in with no intention of even using them as sites (like Golgotha) or just using them as a site for secondary reasons.  I think the SA on a site should be related to the purpose of a site which is to contain or restrict acess to LS's. 
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2011, 12:50:26 AM »
0
I'd love a card that would negate Site access...
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2011, 12:52:54 AM »
+4
How does CP help site lock? It hurt it, imo.... they can't just land dispute my access sites anymore. They'll have to add Benedictus or something.

Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2011, 01:14:53 AM »
0
I cant d/c a occupied site that one black demon, I cant take an access site via Jacobs dream, I cant d/c two sites and a Kingdoms with Ehud and vengeance, I cant do a lot of the things I would normally do to someone who is running a site lock against me.  True CP does protect my access site in my teritory which does limit them somewhat, but they can attack it in battle which there are several nice ways to do that.

I think CP did a lot more to help site lock than hurt it.  If I am facing CP in a site deck, My job just got a whole lot tougher, especially if they are playing heritics and NT LS's
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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2011, 09:27:38 AM »
+1
Why are you playing Jacob's Dream outside of booster? :-*

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2011, 01:14:43 PM »
0
Can't we go back to where everyone only complained about Golgatha?
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Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2011, 01:21:25 PM »
0
of all the di cards, Golgotha is probably the least broken now.  I rank Cesarea Philipi, Thad and Fishing boat above golgotha
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2011, 01:26:08 PM »
0
Thad is pretty broken.  Of those three, I would say he's the most.  I thought Boat was bad, but then I figured out I could only put guys in there in Prep.  Boat + Pentecost+ WoS is entertaining, but not OP'd
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2011, 01:39:48 PM »
0
Thad>HT>CP>Boat>Manny

Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2011, 01:43:08 PM »
0
Thad is pretty broken.  Of those three, I would say he's the most.  I thought Boat was bad, but then I figured out I could only put guys in there in Prep.  Boat + Pentecost+ WoS is entertaining, but not OP'd

No, boat = unlimited, unnegatable site access since nothing can touch good set aside fortresses except ANB yet.  it is the unlimited adn unnegatable site access that I have a problem with because it destroys site lock decks and there is absolutely no real counter.

what is HT and manny?

herods temple? or harvest time? lol  

Is manny manaseh, because That is pretty beastly as well.  thoguh not quite broken since he is multicolor.  you can only have one in type II
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2011, 01:52:07 PM »
+4
CP would have been fine with either one of the two abilities it was given.  With both of them it's really strong.  Probably a little too strong.

I used to think that the new Sites were OP and therefore we would need to make a bunch of counters.  After playing with, and against them this year I'm convinced that the they are one of the best things to happen to the game in recent history.  They hurt many of the most common themes people have used for the past few years.  Suddenly people have to approach their deck building differently.  You can't rely on pre-block ignore, territory destruction, ANB, a timely Mayhem, or even stealing all our opponent's Sites.  Change isn't easy, but it's good. :)
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2011, 03:02:10 PM »
0
When they make a site that would negate Site access, I'll take it. Besides, I run site-lock, and I hold a lot of nasty stuff for any Hero w/ access. U just gotta know how to play it right. If they make a EC that ignores some kind of character, that would be an OP. Also I feel like there's been a Protect obsession. Eather way, I can still get rid of Thaddeus and Rain to Dust can stop Matt and Boat on the first part, and Darius' Decree stops Boat all together. *sigh* If only Cov. W/ Abraham would negate Hero setaside as well...
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2011, 11:45:08 PM »
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I've started to love the sites too. Except Chorazin, nobody plays with it beings it isn't very good :-*.

Thaddeus is by far the most broken. I've been trying everything to stop him and the most success as come from Pretension, which is somewhat sad. Fishing Boat is overrated imo: I've never gotten to draw as much as I wanted and I'd still say it is inferior to CP + 1 or two access sites. Herod's Temple is amazing too, and needed imo.

Offline Isildur

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2011, 11:49:34 PM »
+2
Thad isnt broken vs pale green :p Silly Women ftw
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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2011, 11:58:17 PM »
0
Herod's Temple is lame because of it's infinite usage.

I play Haman's Plot and rip it.
Herod's Temple. Son.
Christian Martyr.
Herod's Temple. Son.
Magic Charms.
That's not a discard. Noob.

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2011, 12:37:04 AM »
0
I tossed Peter's Curse on it all my problems were solved!
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2011, 12:40:42 AM »
0
I suggested a Dominant that could discard a Site or Fortress in play or Set-aside area, It's makes Chamber and Boat not as irritating, plus u can get rid of irritating sites as well.

I've started to love the sites too. Except Chorazin, nobody plays with it beings it isn't very good :-*.

Thaddeus is by far the most broken. I've been trying everything to stop him and the most success as come from Pretension, which is somewhat sad. Fishing Boat is overrated imo: I've never gotten to draw as much as I wanted and I'd still say it is inferior to CP + 1 or two access sites. Herod's Temple is amazing too, and needed imo.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2011, 02:33:47 AM »
+1
I agree with what Gabe said about the Sites. They're not OP, people are just saying they're OP so they can get a lot of counters next set and go back to playing Speed/TGT/Z-Temple instead of changing with the meta. And then the same people that say the Sites are OP complain about Fishing Boat in the same breath  :D Are you pro-site or anti-site, make up your minds! ;)
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2011, 02:47:36 AM »
0
Once each theme/brigade has a reliable way to deal with CP-protected Sites, I think we'll have the best balance. The example I always use is Zebulun. Zebulun decks can still work because you have room for a Teal Hero and Benedictus. Meanwhile, an actual Genesis-themed deck that includes Zebulun probably doesn't have the card slots to add in Benedictus. So while the Sites helped make balanced decks competitive again, many themes are not tournament worthy right now because they have no way to deal with the Sites.
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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2011, 03:12:07 AM »
0
I've been having huge success with Genesis. True Genesis, all Blue. If your Brigade of choice can't deal with CP, don't try to rely on PBI or territory destruction. Really, at least in T1, idk about T2, all cards except Thadeus are harmoniously balanced. If a brigade lacks a way to counter something, it has a way to make it irrelevant, in every single case.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2011, 09:45:14 AM »
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IMO, CP should protect all other N.T. sites. Protecting itself is a bit much. While occupied would have worked too...

Offline crustpope

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2011, 12:52:04 PM »
0
IMO, CP should protect all other N.T. sites. Protecting itself is a bit much. While occupied would have worked too...

Yeah, I'd like to say that these sites only work when occupied.  That way they are fulfilling their intended purpose.  Making them stand alone mini fortresses is, IMO, a corruption of their purpose.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2011, 12:54:03 PM »
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Didn't the rules originally state that site's abilities only worked when occupied?
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2011, 01:14:12 PM »
0

Quote
Meanwhile, an actual Genesis-themed deck that includes Zebulun probably doesn't have the card slots to add in Benedictus.

Joseph, Enoch, Isaac
Consider the Lillies
Benedictus
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2011, 02:32:05 PM »
+1
Watchful Servant is 10x better than Zebby, and works well with TGT.

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2011, 06:55:46 PM »
0
Didn't the rules originally state that site's abilities only worked when occupied?

I don't see that in my rulebooks... And then that gives the question, Why does Purgamum say 'When this site is occupied' So I think it doesn't. Maybe they should make a Hero that Negates protect Abilites on Sites, that would solve everyone's complaints on CP... I don't mind it in my sitelock deck... Guess why?
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2011, 12:37:29 AM »
0
The rules used to be that sites had to be occupied, but is no longer, hence why some say "while occupied"

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2011, 11:25:09 PM »
0
Okay. I started by getting the E/F Deck so I wouldnt have known.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2011, 09:36:16 PM »
0
Watchful Servant is 10x better than Zebby, and works well with TGT.

unless your opponent is playing a 100 card deck...
This is the way Lackey gave it to me. All hail the power of Lackey!

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2011, 09:45:35 PM »
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How often does that happen (outside of RTS)
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Isildur

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2011, 10:11:20 PM »
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alot ;D
3 Prophets Packs ftw

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Had to chuckle at myself...
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2011, 03:47:00 AM »
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Yep, a kid at the touney I go to plays the Max u can have in type 1.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

 


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