Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: The Guardian on February 22, 2011, 02:40:18 AM
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So I ran across some notes and comments in an old notebook that I took on the TexP set while playtesting way back when. I didn't do much playtesting with TexP mainly due to a lack of time, but I would submit comments now and then.
A few notes in particular made me chuckle... (To be fair to myself, I made these comments without ever trying the cards in a playtest deck).
"Grapes of Wrath--not good enough for a dominant"
"Mayhem--just another Harvest Time for Multi-player games..."
:P
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"Doubt - Possibly needs to be nerfed, too many uses"
"Uzzah - Too costly and situational"
"The Garden Tomb - Too difficult to use, will not see competitive play"
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My first thoughts on reading TGT (real thoughts):
Wow, this card needs so much extra work to do anything.
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It was fun to find some old Priests playtesting cards from back before Teal and Orange were brigades lol
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"Gates of Hell--too high of cost."
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"Thad - this guy is too weak, nobody will play him, let's make it CBI."
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We totally didn't say that about him.... I'm pretty sure he was CBI through most of the proccess, we just expanded what his ability targeted near the end.
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"Thad - this guy is too weak, nobody will play him, let's make it CBI."
No see thats what happened to Z Temple lol
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We totally didn't say that about him.... I'm pretty sure he was CBI through most of the proccess, we just expanded what his ability targeted near the end.
"Thad - this guy is too weak, nobody will play him, let's make it CBI."
Not sure but I think Gabe's was sarcastic but I could be wrong. This is not sarcastic BTW.
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Gabe's being serious, actually, that's what happened during playtesting.
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How can I sign up for playtesting?
Also, All of those are hilarious! GoW not good enough? And Mayhem basically another HT?
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Gabe's being serious, actually, that's what happened during playtesting.
What was the SA before you boosted it into the stratosphere?
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Thaddeus v 1.0
47. CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = the number of good disciples you have in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Immune to evil characters with toughness (/*) less than X. May use good N.T. enhancements regardless of brigade.
SCRIPTURE: Luke 6:13-16
FREQUENCY: A
ARTIST: same
Thaddeus v 2.0 - To counter Uzzah:
64. CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = # of your good disciples in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Disciples, Artifacts, and Lost Souls are immune to evil characters with toughness (/*) less than X.
SCRIPTURE: And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor. Luke 6:13-16
FREQUENCY:
ARTIST: same
Thaddeus v 3.0 - after complaints that no one would use him, we added "cannot be interrupted." Includes reference change to Matthew to match the disciple that bands to him:
64. CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = # of your good disciples in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Protect Neutral cards, heroes, and all your cards from evil characters with toughness (/*) X or less. Cannot be interrupted.
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Matthew 10:2-3
FREQUENCY:
ARTIST: same
Thaddeus v4.0 - the step too far:
64. CARD NAME: Thaddeus [Apostles]
CARD TYPE: hero
CLASS:
IDENTIFIERS: Disciple, X = # of your good disciples in play
STATS: 8/8
BRIGADE COLOR: Purple
SPECIAL ABILITY: Protect all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness (/*) X or less. Cannot be interrupted.
SCRIPTURE: Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; Matthew 10:2-3
FREQUENCY:
ARTIST: new art – Georges de la Tour
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Yeah, I think V3.0 would have been the happy medium. As it is, Thaddeus is a huge late game problem with few answers.
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I thought that at one point I'd suggested "All cards not in battle" to be protected, to shorten the ability considerably. I think it was between V3 and V4.
It's basically what it is anyway.
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I don't see heroes as "huge late game problems." Heroes are supposed to win in the late game. But I agree that Thaddeus is too strong even in midgame if cards fall right. That is the balance problem with him. Prepare for a few answers next set.
ECs that you can't ever beat, insurmountable site lock, the inability to attack for the rest of the game, lots of timed out games... THOSE are the "huge problems" if they happen often.
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...insurmountable site lock,...
Which begs the question....what were you all thinking when you made cesarea Philipi?
I dont have a problem with any of the other sites, even Nazereth which attacks my beloved ANB decks. But there are not enough counters to Cesarea philipi, and you have to play them within only a few brigades. This really makes Site lock and a NT defense for that matter, very powerful.
I really dont like the trend of sites becoming mini fortresses. often now people put the sites in with no intention of even using them as sites (like Golgotha) or just using them as a site for secondary reasons. I think the SA on a site should be related to the purpose of a site which is to contain or restrict acess to LS's.
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I'd love a card that would negate Site access...
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How does CP help site lock? It hurt it, imo.... they can't just land dispute my access sites anymore. They'll have to add Benedictus or something.
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I cant d/c a occupied site that one black demon, I cant take an access site via Jacobs dream, I cant d/c two sites and a Kingdoms with Ehud and vengeance, I cant do a lot of the things I would normally do to someone who is running a site lock against me. True CP does protect my access site in my teritory which does limit them somewhat, but they can attack it in battle which there are several nice ways to do that.
I think CP did a lot more to help site lock than hurt it. If I am facing CP in a site deck, My job just got a whole lot tougher, especially if they are playing heritics and NT LS's
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Why are you playing Jacob's Dream outside of booster? :-*
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Can't we go back to where everyone only complained about Golgatha?
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of all the di cards, Golgotha is probably the least broken now. I rank Cesarea Philipi, Thad and Fishing boat above golgotha
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Thad is pretty broken. Of those three, I would say he's the most. I thought Boat was bad, but then I figured out I could only put guys in there in Prep. Boat + Pentecost+ WoS is entertaining, but not OP'd
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Thad>HT>CP>Boat>Manny
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Thad is pretty broken. Of those three, I would say he's the most. I thought Boat was bad, but then I figured out I could only put guys in there in Prep. Boat + Pentecost+ WoS is entertaining, but not OP'd
No, boat = unlimited, unnegatable site access since nothing can touch good set aside fortresses except ANB yet. it is the unlimited adn unnegatable site access that I have a problem with because it destroys site lock decks and there is absolutely no real counter.
what is HT and manny?
herods temple? or harvest time? lol
Is manny manaseh, because That is pretty beastly as well. thoguh not quite broken since he is multicolor. you can only have one in type II
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CP would have been fine with either one of the two abilities it was given. With both of them it's really strong. Probably a little too strong.
I used to think that the new Sites were OP and therefore we would need to make a bunch of counters. After playing with, and against them this year I'm convinced that the they are one of the best things to happen to the game in recent history. They hurt many of the most common themes people have used for the past few years. Suddenly people have to approach their deck building differently. You can't rely on pre-block ignore, territory destruction, ANB, a timely Mayhem, or even stealing all our opponent's Sites. Change isn't easy, but it's good. :)
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When they make a site that would negate Site access, I'll take it. Besides, I run site-lock, and I hold a lot of nasty stuff for any Hero w/ access. U just gotta know how to play it right. If they make a EC that ignores some kind of character, that would be an OP. Also I feel like there's been a Protect obsession. Eather way, I can still get rid of Thaddeus and Rain to Dust can stop Matt and Boat on the first part, and Darius' Decree stops Boat all together. *sigh* If only Cov. W/ Abraham would negate Hero setaside as well...
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I've started to love the sites too. Except Chorazin, nobody plays with it beings it isn't very good :-*.
Thaddeus is by far the most broken. I've been trying everything to stop him and the most success as come from Pretension, which is somewhat sad. Fishing Boat is overrated imo: I've never gotten to draw as much as I wanted and I'd still say it is inferior to CP + 1 or two access sites. Herod's Temple is amazing too, and needed imo.
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Thad isnt broken vs pale green :p Silly Women ftw
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Herod's Temple is lame because of it's infinite usage.
I play Haman's Plot and rip it.
Herod's Temple. Son.
Christian Martyr.
Herod's Temple. Son.
Magic Charms.
That's not a discard. Noob.
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I tossed Peter's Curse on it all my problems were solved!
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I suggested a Dominant that could discard a Site or Fortress in play or Set-aside area, It's makes Chamber and Boat not as irritating, plus u can get rid of irritating sites as well.
I've started to love the sites too. Except Chorazin, nobody plays with it beings it isn't very good :-*.
Thaddeus is by far the most broken. I've been trying everything to stop him and the most success as come from Pretension, which is somewhat sad. Fishing Boat is overrated imo: I've never gotten to draw as much as I wanted and I'd still say it is inferior to CP + 1 or two access sites. Herod's Temple is amazing too, and needed imo.
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I agree with what Gabe said about the Sites. They're not OP, people are just saying they're OP so they can get a lot of counters next set and go back to playing Speed/TGT/Z-Temple instead of changing with the meta. And then the same people that say the Sites are OP complain about Fishing Boat in the same breath :D Are you pro-site or anti-site, make up your minds! ;)
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Once each theme/brigade has a reliable way to deal with CP-protected Sites, I think we'll have the best balance. The example I always use is Zebulun. Zebulun decks can still work because you have room for a Teal Hero and Benedictus. Meanwhile, an actual Genesis-themed deck that includes Zebulun probably doesn't have the card slots to add in Benedictus. So while the Sites helped make balanced decks competitive again, many themes are not tournament worthy right now because they have no way to deal with the Sites.
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I've been having huge success with Genesis. True Genesis, all Blue. If your Brigade of choice can't deal with CP, don't try to rely on PBI or territory destruction. Really, at least in T1, idk about T2, all cards except Thadeus are harmoniously balanced. If a brigade lacks a way to counter something, it has a way to make it irrelevant, in every single case.
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IMO, CP should protect all other N.T. sites. Protecting itself is a bit much. While occupied would have worked too...
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IMO, CP should protect all other N.T. sites. Protecting itself is a bit much. While occupied would have worked too...
Yeah, I'd like to say that these sites only work when occupied. That way they are fulfilling their intended purpose. Making them stand alone mini fortresses is, IMO, a corruption of their purpose.
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Didn't the rules originally state that site's abilities only worked when occupied?
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Meanwhile, an actual Genesis-themed deck that includes Zebulun probably doesn't have the card slots to add in Benedictus.
Joseph, Enoch, Isaac
Consider the Lillies
Benedictus
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Watchful Servant is 10x better than Zebby, and works well with TGT.
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Didn't the rules originally state that site's abilities only worked when occupied?
I don't see that in my rulebooks... And then that gives the question, Why does Purgamum say 'When this site is occupied' So I think it doesn't. Maybe they should make a Hero that Negates protect Abilites on Sites, that would solve everyone's complaints on CP... I don't mind it in my sitelock deck... Guess why?
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The rules used to be that sites had to be occupied, but is no longer, hence why some say "while occupied"
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Okay. I started by getting the E/F Deck so I wouldnt have known.
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Watchful Servant is 10x better than Zebby, and works well with TGT.
unless your opponent is playing a 100 card deck...
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How often does that happen (outside of RTS)
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alot ;D
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Yep, a kid at the touney I go to plays the Max u can have in type 1.