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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: BubbleBoy on March 03, 2012, 11:10:42 PM

Title: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 03, 2012, 11:10:42 PM
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Facademy.redemptionconnect.com%2Fcards%2Fmake%2F%3Ftype%3Dhero%26amp%3Bbrigade%3Dsilver%26amp%3Btitle%3DForetelling%2BAngel%26amp%3Bstrength%3D4%26amp%3Btoughness%3D7%26amp%3Bspecial%3DLook%2Bat%2Bdeck.%2BMove%2Bany%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btop%2BX%2Bcards%2Bto%2Bbottom%2Bin%2Bany%2Border.%2BReplace%2Bdeck%2Bwithout%2Bshuffling.%2BCannot%2Bbe%2Bnegated.%26amp%3Bverse%3DHis%2Bbody%2Balso%2Bwas%2Blike%2Bthe%2Bberyl%252C%2Band%2Bhis%2Bface%2Bas%2Bthe%2Bappearance%2Bof%2Blightning%252C%2Band%2Bhis%2Beyes%2Bas%2Blamps%2Bof%2Bfire%252C%2Band%2Bhis%2Barms%2Band%2Bhis%2Bfeet%2Blike%2Bin%2Bcolour%2Bto%2Bpolished%2Bbrass%252C%2Band%2Bthe%2Bvoice%2Bof%2Bhis%2Bwords%2Blike%2Bthe%2Bvoice%2Bof%2Ba%2Bmultitude.%26amp%3Breference%3DDaniel%2B10%253A6%26amp%3Bborder%3Dangel%26amp%3BcardImage%3Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fs3.amazonaws.com%25252Frconnect%25252Fcards%25252Fcustom%25252Fimages%25252Fa50af5eb16f5de001c38edb998ccdb08.jpg%26amp%3BcardImageX%3D0%26amp%3BcardImageWidth%3D299%26amp%3BcardImageHeight%3D326%26amp%3BcardImageY%3D0%26amp%3Bclass%3Dnone%26amp%3Bidentifier%3DProphet%252C%2BX%2B%253D%2B%2523%2Bof%2Byour%2BDaniel%2BHeroes%26amp%3BtitleR%3D%26amp%3BtitleG%3D%26amp%3BtitleB%3D%26amp%3BtitleShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BabilityR%3D%26amp%3BabilityG%3D%26amp%3BabilityB%3D%26amp%3BabilityShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BspecialR%3D%26amp%3BspecialG%3D%26amp%3BspecialB%3D%26amp%3BspecialShadow%3Dblack%26amp%3BiR%3D%26amp%3BiG%3D%26amp%3BiB%3D%26amp%3BiShadow%3Dnone&hash=74ba2b44d3f8f9e7372d030e5bf2ae9a935a02a7)

By Master Q:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1142.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn614%2FJoshKnitt%2FWatcher.jpg&hash=b2e0ab6f168243818be4ab94c1b4bc83bd219e13)

Inspired by Pol:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Facademy.redemptionconnect.com%2Fcards%2Fmake%2F%3Ftype%3Dhero%26amp%3Bbrigade%3Dsilver%26amp%3Btitle%3DAngel%2Bin%2Bthe%2BDen%26amp%3Bstrength%3D1%26amp%3Btoughness%3D12%26amp%3Bspecial%3DProtect%2Bhuman%2Bheroes%2Bfrom%2Bdiscard.%2BMay%2Bband%2Bto%2Ba%2Bhuman%2Bhero%2Bwith%2Ba%2BDaniel%2Breference.%26amp%3Bverse%3DMy%2BGod%2Bhath%2Bsent%2Bhis%2Bangel%252C%2Band%2Bhath%2Bshut%2Bthe%2Blions%27%2Bmouths%252C%2Bthat%2Bthey%2Bhave%2Bnot%2Bhurt%2Bme%253A%2Bforasmuch%2Bas%2Bbefore%2Bhim%2Binnocency%2Bwas%2Bfound%2Bin%2Bme%253B%2Band%2Balso%2Bbefore%2Bthee%252C%2BO%2Bking%252C%2Bhave%2BI%2Bdone%2Bno%2Bhurt.%26amp%3Breference%3DDaniel%2B6%253A22%26amp%3Bborder%3Dredorange%26amp%3BcardImage%3Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fs3.amazonaws.com%25252Frconnect%25252Fcards%25252Fcustom%25252Fimages%25252F320ec96a05bac4049d4d519612ca08fa.jpg%26amp%3BcardImageX%3D0%26amp%3BcardImageWidth%3D237%26amp%3BcardImageHeight%3D258%26amp%3BcardImageY%3D19%26amp%3Bclass%3Dnone%26amp%3Bidentifier%3D%26amp%3BtitleR%3D%26amp%3BtitleG%3D%26amp%3BtitleB%3D%26amp%3BtitleShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BabilityR%3D%26amp%3BabilityG%3D%26amp%3BabilityB%3D%26amp%3BabilityShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BspecialR%3D%26amp%3BspecialG%3D%26amp%3BspecialB%3D%26amp%3BspecialShadow%3Dblack%26amp%3BiR%3D%26amp%3BiG%3D%26amp%3BiB%3D%26amp%3BiShadow%3Dnone&hash=b91faeee65d3189ab2ba20a8780ec06df9837a5b)

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Facademy.redemptionconnect.com%2Fcards%2Fmake%2F%3Ftype%3Dhero%26amp%3Bbrigade%3Dwhite%26amp%3Btitle%3DShadrach%2B%28Hananiah%29%26amp%3Bstrength%3D5%26amp%3Btoughness%3D7%26amp%3Bspecial%3DProtect%2BLost%2BSouls%2Band%2BDaniel%2BHeroes%2Bfrom%2BArtifacts%252C%2BEvil%2BDominants%252C%2Band%2BEvil%2BDaniel%2Bcards.%2BMay%2Bband%2Bto%2Ba%2BDaniel%2BHero.%2BCannot%2Bbe%2Bprevented.%26amp%3Bverse%3DThen%2BDaniel%2Brequested%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bking%252C%2Band%2Bhe%2Bset%2BShadrach%252C%2BMeshach%252C%2Band%2BAbednego%252C%2Bover%2Bthe%2Baffairs%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bprovince%2Bof%2BBabylon%253A%26amp%3Breference%3DDaniel%2B2%253A49%26amp%3Bborder%3Dred%26amp%3BcardImage%3Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fs3.amazonaws.com%25252Frconnect%25252Fcards%25252Fcustom%25252Fimages%25252Fe7d02d97c54893220c2a17ab49bf2f2c.jpg%26amp%3BcardImageX%3D82%26amp%3BcardImageWidth%3D318%26amp%3BcardImageHeight%3D346%26amp%3BcardImageY%3D0%26amp%3Bclass%3Dnone%26amp%3Bidentifier%3D%26amp%3BtitleR%3D%26amp%3BtitleG%3D%26amp%3BtitleB%3D%26amp%3BtitleShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BabilityR%3D%26amp%3BabilityG%3D%26amp%3BabilityB%3D%26amp%3BabilityShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BspecialR%3D%26amp%3BspecialG%3D%26amp%3BspecialB%3D%26amp%3BspecialShadow%3Dblack%26amp%3BiR%3D%26amp%3BiG%3D%26amp%3BiB%3D%26amp%3BiShadow%3Dnone&hash=114e187bb8f4a56adfa995befabf2de554a42200)

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Facademy.redemptionconnect.com%2Fcards%2Fmake%2F%3Ftype%3Dhero%26amp%3Bbrigade%3Dwhite%26amp%3Btitle%3DMeshach%2B%28Mishael%29%26amp%3Bstrength%3D5%26amp%3Btoughness%3D7%26amp%3Bspecial%3DWhite%2BDaniel%2Benhancements%2Bcannot%2Bbe%2Binterrupted%2Bby%2Bevil%2Bcards.%2BMay%2Bband%2Bto%2Ba%2BDaniel%2BHero%2Bor%2Bsearch%2Bdeck%2Bfor%2Ba%2BDaniel%2Bangel.%26amp%3Bverse%3DThen%2BDaniel%2Brequested%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bking%252C%2Band%2Bhe%2Bset%2BShadrach%252C%2BMeshach%252C%2Band%2BAbednego%252C%2Bover%2Bthe%2Baffairs%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bprovince%2Bof%2BBabylon%253A%26amp%3Breference%3DDaniel%2B2%253A49%26amp%3Bborder%3Dred%26amp%3BcardImage%3Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fs3.amazonaws.com%25252Frconnect%25252Fcards%25252Fcustom%25252Fimages%25252F53055ea87e76cd6b7f686e29978edf8d.jpg%26amp%3BcardImageX%3D61%26amp%3BcardImageWidth%3D341%26amp%3BcardImageHeight%3D371%26amp%3BcardImageY%3D2%26amp%3Bclass%3Dnone%26amp%3Bidentifier%3D%26amp%3BtitleR%3D%26amp%3BtitleG%3D%26amp%3BtitleB%3D%26amp%3BtitleShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BabilityR%3D%26amp%3BabilityG%3D%26amp%3BabilityB%3D%26amp%3BabilityShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BspecialR%3D%26amp%3BspecialG%3D%26amp%3BspecialB%3D%26amp%3BspecialShadow%3Dblack%26amp%3BiR%3D%26amp%3BiG%3D%26amp%3BiB%3D%26amp%3BiShadow%3Dnone&hash=8cd91ed604bb330d7816f1a449c80469dd074940)

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi666.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv28%2Fbaconsnake2%2FNebuchadnezzarsMadness.jpg&hash=396f5fb58a68a01c5e025d60011f3050123a5d8a)

Pol's Idea:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi666.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv28%2Fbaconsnake2%2FWritingontheWall-1.jpg&hash=4fc930fe0c4df1df6bcb6f497fd66e568847a5e9)

Pol's Idea:
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi666.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fvv28%2Fbaconsnake2%2FMichaelRises.jpg&hash=aad80f6bdba035d6422e0ea026f13e2c9360cf82)

All thoughts and suggestions are welcome!
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Redoubter on March 03, 2012, 11:17:49 PM
I think that nothing better could happen to the game than to have other competitive themes.  I'm sure someone is going to post that it must draw the same as the other themes currently at the top to be competitive, but I disagree and hope that something could be made FUN and still powerful.

As far as the card you posted, I think it is actually very interesting.  Not quite sure it's OP, as you'd still have to play a separate draw ability to get the card you placed (if it goes to the top) before your opponent played any of a myriad of deck-discard abilities.  If it goes to bottom, that of course helps certain defenses (Demons with GoH or Magicians with...a lot of cards).  Have to think about it and try to break the game with it, but I think it's definitely a start :)
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Irish_Luck on March 03, 2012, 11:21:04 PM
It seems a bit OP'd to me, in two turns you can get both SOG and NJ as well as you have the ability to bury souls beneath your deck. If this was real I would switch to Daniel offense with a demon defense since I could know if I should gates and just how much to use it. It is an interesting idea though.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: lp670sv on March 03, 2012, 11:22:41 PM
(take that with a grain of salt, Bret will look for ANY reason he can find to use demons  ::) )
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Irish_Luck on March 03, 2012, 11:23:54 PM
(take that with a grain of salt, Bret will look for ANY reason he can find to use demons  ::) )
True enough
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Master Q on March 03, 2012, 11:39:15 PM

I also think we need reprints of Shadrach, Meshach, maybe Abednego, and Watcher, as well as some new Daniel enhancements. I'm currently researching and thinking up ideas for some of those. With just that much, I think Daniel could be well on its way to playability.

I made a Watcher not too long ago, I know it's on my thread and the Feb submissions. I was going to start a theme that plays off that, but I moved on. :P

I think the biggest problem is there are virtually no useful white enhancements for the Daniel Heroes; I really have no problems with the heroes the way they stand, but they have nothing that TGT can't do 9001% better.

As for the Foretelling Angel, I think it's a bit too much to be able to put any card you want on top or bottom, I would rather have it be like a Susanna, where you look at the top X (X = # of your Daniel Heroes) and pick one, but that's not very creative, and I'd like to see a creative Daniel theme. As an aside, I was going to do a reprint of Foretelling Angel with my Watcher reprint, but I couldn't find the original picture for it so I gave up (if they do a FA reprint, they better have the same picture, because it's awesome).  :2cents:
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 03, 2012, 11:59:51 PM
The more I think about it the more I like this card. It is certainly powerful, yes. However, I don't plan on giving the Daniel dudes a lot of drawing, so I think they would need something like this to get what they need. Also, you need both him and Daniel out to successfully top-deck a card. Counters: deck d/c (needs popularity boost anyway), anything that causes you to shuffle (too long a list), kill Daniel.

Maybe an "except dominants" is needed though...

I think the biggest problem is there are virtually no useful white enhancements for the Daniel Heroes; I really have no problems with the heroes the way they stand, but they have nothing that TGT can't do 9001% better.
That's why we need some new enhancements!
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Redoubter on March 04, 2012, 08:07:17 AM
Maybe an "except dominants" is needed though...

Just realize that would mean you would have to reveal, since it would not just by 'a card' :)

As to the part about TGT, I think any enhancements you make should start with "If used by an OT hero..." or better yet "If all of your heroes are OT...".  That would stop the good ones from just ending up in a TGT deck, and give it a unique flair :D
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 05, 2012, 12:54:49 AM
"Look at a deck. If Daniel is in play, you may move one O.T. card in deck to top or bottom. Cannot be Negated."
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Red Wing on March 05, 2012, 10:57:26 AM
Here's one of my Daniel ideas.
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Facademy.redemptionconnect.com%2Fcards%2Fmake%2F%3Ftype%3Dhe%26amp%3Bbrigade%3Dsilver%26amp%3Btitle%3DSwift%2BBeings%26amp%3Bstrength%3D2%26amp%3Btoughness%3D5%26amp%3Bspecial%3DInterrupt%2Bthe%2BBattle.%2BIf%2Bthe%2Bonly%2Bhero%28s%29%2Bin%2Bbattle%2Bare%2Bsilver%252C%2Bdraw%2Bthree%2Band%2Bplay%2Bthe%2Bnext%2Benhancement.%2BIf%2Ba%2BDaniel%2Bhero%2Bis%2Bin%2Bbattle%252C%2Bdiscard%2Ban%2BEvil%2BCharacter.%2BCannot%2Bbe%2BInterrupted.%2B%250A%26amp%3Bverse%3DYea%252C%2Bwhiles%2BI%2B%255Bwas%255D%2Bspeaking%2Bin%2Bprayer%252C%2Beven%2Bthe%2Bman%2BGabriel%252C%2Bwhom%2BI%2Bhad%2Bseen%2Bin%2Bthe%2Bvision%2Bat%2Bthe%2Bbeginning%252C%2Bbeing%2Bcaused%2Bto%2Bfly%2Bswiftly%252C%2Btouched%2Bme%2Babout%2Bthe%2Btime%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bevening%2Boblation.%250A%26amp%3Breference%3DDaniel%2B9%253A21%2B%26amp%3Bborder%3Dangel%26amp%3BcardImage%3Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fs3.amazonaws.com%25252Frconnect%25252Fcards%25252Fcustom%25252Fimages%25252F27331e706fe5ba1e99365f23bfb0b109.jpg%26amp%3BcardImageX%3D0%26amp%3BcardImageWidth%3D220%26amp%3BcardImageHeight%3D240%26amp%3BcardImageY%3D3%26amp%3Bclass%3Dnone%26amp%3Bidentifier%3D%26amp%3BtitleR%3D%26amp%3BtitleG%3D%26amp%3BtitleB%3D%26amp%3BtitleShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BabilityR%3D%26amp%3BabilityG%3D%26amp%3BabilityB%3D%26amp%3BabilityShadow%3Dnone%26amp%3BspecialR%3D%26amp%3BspecialG%3D%26amp%3BspecialB%3D%26amp%3BspecialShadow%3Dblack%26amp%3BiR%3D%26amp%3BiG%3D%26amp%3BiB%3D%26amp%3BiShadow%3Dnone&hash=15c293ae133c1b14c09f6202a312e31cff688e9e)
Should be Half white.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 05, 2012, 12:03:59 PM
Red Wing, that looks really OP and pretty generic. I'd give suggestions, but I'm a little burned out now since my last big update.

By the way, update.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 05, 2012, 01:10:49 PM
Those cards look straight awesome.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 05, 2012, 01:12:18 PM
Writing on the Wall can negate itself.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Red Wing on March 05, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Red Wing, that looks really OP and pretty generic. I'd give suggestions, but I'm a little burned out now since my last big update.
Daniel heroes don't have any CBN/CBI ways to win battles. Until they do, Daniel won't be a strong theme. And how is it Generic? 
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 05, 2012, 01:17:26 PM
No it can't, since cards haven't fully entered battle until their SA's have resolved.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Master Q on March 05, 2012, 09:42:47 PM
How's this?

Spoiler (hover to show)

Spoiler (hover to show)

EDIT - I changed Stone and added another one - EDIT
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 06, 2012, 01:16:47 AM
Stone Cut without Hands needs a place ability to function as intended. I'd also make it half-green and "If used by a Prophet" rather than by Daniel.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Master Q on March 06, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
Stone Cut without Hands needs a place ability to function as intended. I'd also make it half-green and "If used by a Prophet" rather than by Daniel.

I was thinking of just dropping the 1st part altogether to cut down on wording (it would be 7 lines of text with the place ability). That way you can't just throw Danny + this into a TGT deck to get rid of an evil card for free. Might add a "Limit 1 per territory" identifier also...
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 06, 2012, 03:33:09 PM
Stone Cut without Hands needs a place ability to function as intended. I'd also make it half-green and "If used by a Prophet" rather than by Daniel.

I was thinking of just dropping the 1st part altogether to cut down on wording (it would be 7 lines of text with the place ability). That way you can't just throw Danny + this into a TGT deck to get rid of an evil card for free. Might add a "Limit 1 per territory" identifier also...
I was thinking that myself. I don't know if I like adding green to it, since all these Daniel enhancements are half-color already, but this change would certainly save space. However, I'm a little worried about it being UP.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: SomeKittens on March 06, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
It's UP for T1, but I think it'll find it's niche in T2.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 06, 2012, 03:56:49 PM
I wasn't even thinking about T2. I just figured there were so many half-brigade cards in the theme it wouldn't be viable in T2.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 06, 2012, 05:26:13 PM
Yeah, a Daniel theme as suggested would be T1 only because of the bi-colored cards. I'm cool with having some T1 only themes and some T2 only themes (Heretics, I'm looking at you).
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Master Q on March 06, 2012, 09:53:40 PM
It's UP for T1, but I think it'll find it's niche in T2.

I was actually thinking it was a bit OP, since it would trigger off of Watcher every time he insteads a discard, or you can have fun trying to Soul-lock your opponent with cards that exchange LSs. It is only for Daniel Heroes though, so it might be a big enough reason to use them, and a big enough drawback.

Anyways, I've removed the first part and added another card.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 06, 2012, 10:45:04 PM
Stone: On second thought, this does seem a bit powerful. I was thinking it might not get much use, but now that I think about it, it probably will, especially with Watcher as-is. I definitely don't like the soul lock part of it. I think I would reword it to say "evil card" and/or "not in battle" to limit it a bit. (Imagine blocking with Complainers.) Also, a 1 per territory limit.

Interpretation: I like the idea, but I'm not sure about the "discard it" part.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 06, 2012, 10:56:12 PM
Love Interpretation too. The way this is shaping up I may rescind my opposition to fleshing out Daniel as a theme. However, I still insist on Musicians gaining viability first.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 11, 2012, 12:24:06 AM
I would change Micheal Rises to be Silver/White instead of Green/White so it would work with Micheal.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 11, 2012, 09:27:35 AM
I would change Micheal Rises to be Silver/White instead of Green/White so it would work with Micheal.
I think the point is that it doesn't work with Michael. We don't want silver to be self-sufficient.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 11, 2012, 09:51:13 AM
I still don't think good should have any end the battle cards, it's just too OP imho. (this is referring to the DAE)
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 11, 2012, 03:44:35 PM
It's pretty much mostly for use on Evil. With Good, you can't use is preblock, using it when you have normal initiative pretty much guarantees a loss, you can't use it if the EC has a CBI ability and no Enhancements have been played, etc.

Pretty much the only time you'd be able to use it on offense is during mutual destruction where both characters have much higher offenses than defense (not true of any Daniel Hero) or off of Words of Encouragement.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 11, 2012, 03:56:23 PM
Fair enough. Though I'm sure someone would find a combo granting someone access to white that could use this either pre-block or just very effectively post-block. But, combo players get screwed so often, they can have this one. :P
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 11, 2012, 04:01:17 PM
It can never be used pre-block under any circumstances. You have to be opposed (which you aren't pre-block) and you have to negate a Evil card in battle to end the battle (only doable pre-block if the Hero has something placed on him).
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 11, 2012, 04:09:18 PM
D'oh. I forgot about the "if opposed" part, my bad. *headdesk* I blame it on Daylight Savings making me lose an hour of sleep before an early work shift this morning. >_<
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 11, 2012, 11:00:52 PM
Pretty much the only time you'd be able to use it on offense is during mutual destruction where both characters have much higher offenses than defense (not true of any Daniel Hero) or off of Words of Encouragement.
Or Undefiled, don't forget.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: SomeKittens on March 12, 2012, 02:12:08 PM
It can never be used pre-block under any circumstances. You have to be opposed (which you aren't pre-block) and you have to negate a Evil card in battle to end the battle (only doable pre-block if the Hero has something placed on him).
Mahari + Angel's Sword + CTB.  Best way I could think of to abuse it.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 12, 2012, 08:21:43 PM
Exactly. CTB is probably already a win on its own, and if you have Angel's Sword and CTB both you can win with any number of Enhancements.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 12, 2012, 10:10:40 PM
I would change Micheal Rises to be Silver/White instead of Green/White so it would work with Micheal.
I think the point is that it doesn't work with Michael. We don't want silver to be self-sufficient.

That's the problem, how it is, I wouldn't play that in a Daniel deck, especially since it doesn't fit w/ Green at all. (And I doubt many others would either.) Also, not allowing Silver to be self-sufficient brings into question why they are there. The idea of a support brigade is just bad for the game. It would be just easier to then add them to the brigade they support and then just not have the brigade then to purposely cripple it and then give more OP cards to other brigades and have little to no complaints about it.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 12, 2012, 10:17:58 PM
Also, not allowing Silver to be self-sufficient brings into question why they are there. The idea of a support brigade is just bad for the game.
Please elaborate.

Quote
It would be just easier to then add them to the brigade they support and then just not have the brigade then to purposely cripple it and then give more OP cards to other brigades and have little to no complaints about it.
More OP cards to the other brigades? What about Captain, Strong, and Oak, possibly 3 of the 10 most powerful heroes in the game?
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 12, 2012, 10:22:18 PM
The idea of a support brigade is just bad for the game.
I see no proof of this. The game seems to be working just fine with silver as a splashable support brigade (in fact, you see silver in almost every deck with the way it works now).
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 12, 2012, 11:54:43 PM
TSA and Cap are not too useful anymore because it's too easy to Negate them. AutO has no reason to be Silver, (besides that it's an Angel) all cards that use the number of Opponent's Good Brigades abuse it infinitely.

Think of it like this: Why make a useless brigade that can't work on their own, give Opponents more bonuses because it's another brigade and the quite often possibility of having the inability to play anything on that card, causing me to lose it or making hundreds of cards that no one will use (aka AoW, Attending Angel, the entire AW good set, not to mention any old Silver card) just for them to never see play except in obscure decks that can't beat anything but a starter deck?
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 12, 2012, 11:58:09 PM
It's not a useless brigade, though. That's what we've been trying to say. Usefulness is not limited to mono-brigade decks, and silver has some very powerful heroes that help several different themes.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 13, 2012, 12:15:57 AM
Yes, but all those other themes can run w/o them but Angels barely can run for themselves and people claim that we shouldn't help him, but that set is the one that needs it the most.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 13, 2012, 12:25:07 AM
It could be argued that Sam, the best deck in the game, couldn't function without Angels, so there goes that argument.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 13, 2012, 12:39:15 AM
I have seen good Sam decks have no Angels too. Then u don't use Gideon either. But like I said, those Angels shouldn't even be Silver. They have no help to Silver and are more harmful then anything.
Idk what most people say, a CBN +2 doesn't help Angel decks that much, and still AutO's effect isn't even close enough to how he was in the bible. Too many cards are like that.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 13, 2012, 12:42:23 AM
You'd be hard-pressed to find many cards that ARE "how [they were] in the Bible" considering there are no cards, decks, "lost souls", or players in the Bible and there's no "removing from the game," drawing, setting aside, placing face-down, discarding, ignoring, etc.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 13, 2012, 01:01:43 AM
Actually, plenty of those effects aren't hard to somewhat find. It just takes knowing how to look. I.e. The Sixth Seal is cosmic disturbances & an Earthquake, along w/ the people of the earth fearing what is coming. So the Sixth Seal should do harm to Sites/Fortresses (The earthquake) and harm OT Cards (Since several civilizations that worshipped celistial bodies are OT, and it would be too long and possibly to OP to do otherwise).
There are lots of cards that are quite close to what the Bible notes them to doing (ie. Plagued w/ Diseases, Storehouse, Satan's Seat, Emperor Nero, Saul/Paul (for the most part, could be better), Wall of Protection, Trust in the Lord, etc) but AutO isnt one of them.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 13, 2012, 11:04:24 AM
How I see this thread...

"Yay, Daniel cards! Let's try this and this and this..."
megamanlan: "Silver shouldn't be a support brigade."
"Why?"
megamanlan: "Well, silver is UP."
"No it's not."
megamanlan: "Yes it is, and there shouldn't even be a silver."
"...No, it works just fine. Silver is a healthy support brigade with interesting effects."
megamanlan: "Well, this silver card is not Biblical."
"..."

megamanlan, silver as a support brigade is far more Biblical than most aspects of the game, as most of the accounts of angels in the Bible have to do with them giving messages to humans or rebuking humans or giving humans visions, etc. They rarely do things for themselves (though it does happen; thus cards like Captain, Gabe, and Mike). Sure, some silver cards might not make sense, but neither do lots of other cards. Game-wise, silver definitely and unarguably has powerful cards, and most of them help other brigades and themes, which adds an interesting factor to the game. Sure, you could argue that angels should never have been put into a separate brigade, but they're there now, so that's just beating a dead horse.
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Master Q on March 13, 2012, 11:47:27 AM
Nonsense aside, I have a suggestion to make the wording shorter (slightly) on Neb's Madness:

"Regardless of restrictions, if all your Heroes are Daniel Heroes, set-aside an Evil human for 7 turns. Cannot be negated if target is a king."

- Just trying to stay on target  ::)
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: browarod on March 13, 2012, 12:32:03 PM
Just trying to stay on target  ::)
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwebsiteownersclub.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2Fstay-on-target.gif&hash=a84a28a0c2cfbe31e207636d1ca15566db77e44b)
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Master Q on March 13, 2012, 02:11:57 PM
Yes, I was thinking of SW. Party on! 8)
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 13, 2012, 08:08:14 PM
Noooooooooooooo!  Poor Porkins :(
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: BubbleBoy on March 13, 2012, 08:38:29 PM
"Regardless of restrictions, if all your Heroes are Daniel Heroes, set-aside an Evil human for 7 turns. Cannot be negated if target is a king."
That's probably better. Not quite worth going back and changing though. :P
Title: Re: Daniel Revival
Post by: megamanlan on March 13, 2012, 11:34:54 PM
How I see this thread...

"Yay, Daniel cards! Let's try this and this and this..."
megamanlan: "Silver shouldn't be a support brigade."
"Why?"
megamanlan: "Well, silver is UP."
"No it's not."
megamanlan: "Yes it is, and there shouldn't even be a silver."
"...No, it works just fine. Silver is a healthy support brigade with interesting effects."
megamanlan: "Well, this silver card is not Biblical."
"..."

megamanlan, silver as a support brigade is far more Biblical than most aspects of the game, as most of the accounts of angels in the Bible have to do with them giving messages to humans or rebuking humans or giving humans visions, etc. They rarely do things for themselves (though it does happen; thus cards like Captain, Gabe, and Mike). Sure, some silver cards might not make sense, but neither do lots of other cards. Game-wise, silver definitely and unarguably has powerful cards, and most of them help other brigades and themes, which adds an interesting factor to the game. Sure, you could argue that angels should never have been put into a separate brigade, but they're there now, so that's just beating a dead horse.

Correction: I suggested making Mike's Rising and u shot it down claiming that Silver shouldn't be able to be a mono-brigade. Basically what u are trying to do is claim that Silver should be incapable of being mono. The current mono Silver deck has a hard time at best taking on the current decks out there. (w/ it's strange incapablilty to fight Demons, only 1 CBN Enhancement, and inability to counteract Sites/Forts etc.) I don't mind some of the cards being help for other brigades. But it's stupid to not allow Angels to work alone as well, (as Daniel & Revelation note very well) meanwhile there are cards that do the same thing as those Characters and are CBI. And people claim that Angels can't work alone? And need Humans to be effective? That is not supported anywhere in the bible. The Bible shows them spreading the gospel.
As for why if Silver is going to be limited to a 'support brigade' and in essence be just a group of lackies for another theme, then from a Card Game designer's standpoint, it's pointless to make a card that will never be played because the Characters they can be used w/ are not in a deck that they can be used. I am making my own game and that is something I'm afraid of for my game. Making cards that no one will ever use because they don't do anything.
I was merely suggesting allowing Micheal to play a card that was meant for him to play, which if he can't use it himself then why make a card like that? It's like having Isaiah's Call not be Green.
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