Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Egyptian on July 29, 2009, 03:48:20 PM
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A couple of card ideas for Silver parity and help Silver with site decks. Inspired by Everytribe (Bill V).
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Angels need help with site access? This is new to me.
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Angels need help with site access? This is new to me.
Well, pretty much if you're playing an angel deck you're stuck with Dragon Raid / NJ / Promised Land. There are two angels that have site access (which can be negated), neither of which are that strong (not saying they are bad cards, just not strong cards). Angels can't benefit from Temple Veil or Priestly Crown, two commonly used access cards. Journey to Egypt is excellent but then you have to have a blue brigade hero (or a way to make one). Ends of the Earth is good but doesn't work for Captain, one of the most commonly played angels, etc.
It just seems to me more difficult to get angels site access than it does with the other brigades. Reasonable minds can of course differ. I liked the idea of a weapon-class enhancement that functioned as "I am Salvation" and "Site access" combined.
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There are also several angels who have site access abilities (A at Jerusalem, A of Deliverance, A in the Path). And as far as Ends of the Eart goes, Captain can't use it, but unless you're banding to him at that point, TSA is just about as good and can use it.
Sweet cards, but I never had a huge problem vs. sites with my Silver deck, so I don't see a pressing need.
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LOL... I forgot about Angel of Deliverance which is totally ironic since this card is called Sword of Deliverance.
I see where you're going but I do have problems with site access with my silver deck and I've got at least three access cards in there. What site access cards do you use in your silver deck? Maybe I just need to tweak mine.
What do you think about the interrupt-draw-three-play-next for silver? Everybody else is doing it. :-)
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LOL... I forgot about Angel of Deliverance which is totally ironic since this card is called Sword of Deliverance.
I see where you're going but I do have problems with site access with my silver deck and I've got at least three access cards in there. What site access cards do you use in your silver deck? Maybe I just need to tweak mine.
What do you think about the interrupt-draw-three-play-next for silver? Everybody else is doing it. :-)
I used Ends of the Earth and Angel at Jerusalem I think (I haven't used the deck in awhile, and I have since taken it apart). Other than that, you just have to be really careful when playing a site deck. I suppose that deck would fail against a well built site lock deck, but silver is a really fast offense, so that well-built deck would have to set up fairly quickly. I guess I don't recall facing too many site decks with it, as I only took it to one or two tournies, so I might not be the best of help. If you're worried about sites, you can use any of the above cards, maybe throw in Dragon Raid as well as EotE, and one of the heroes.
With Striking Herod, silver basically has an interrupt and play next all in one card. If any brigade was to get that type of card, I'd say Red should, so that people can actually use all of those awesome battle winners it has.
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top card pwns.
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I suppose that deck would fail against a well built site lock deck, but silver is a really fast offense
Could you please explain this comment a little more? I have an angel deck that has worked fairly well (in fact I won a game with it tonight) but I don't find that it's all that "fast". What silver enhancements can I use to make it faster? I'm probably missing some other cards...I can PM you the deck if you'd like.
Thanks,
Egyptian
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Silver is ridiculous fast in that if you draw either TSA or Captain early on, that can win the game in three rescues, once you get Michael and Angel's Sword, all of your battle-winners get you LS's (for the most part), and an early Gabe can win the game very early on by taking out key offensive Enhancements.
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Silver is ridiculous fast in that if you draw either TSA or Captain early on, that can win the game in three rescues, once you get Michael and Angel's Sword, all of your battle-winners get you LS's (for the most part), and an early Gabe can win the game very early on by taking out key offensive Enhancements.
Hard to agree with you here. Yes, a first-turn Strong Angel is nice, but there are a lot of big cards that can block him, so much more stuff out there that cannot be prevented, etc. As for the Captain, always risky to play him before you've got Wall of Protection up. Gabriel can take out cards but there's a lot of risk to that (pale green/confusion for one).
Rulings significantly weakened Michael + Angel's Sword by decreeing that WC ECs+Horses of various civilizations actually get to play before Michael + Angel's Sword. I've never understood that edict, because cannot be negated includes cannot be interrupted, which means that the SA cannot be stopped by any card played after it, and Michael+Angel's Sword is already played, in battle and activated when opponent plays cards into battle to block, but be that as it may. I'm certainly not a Redemption lawyer :-).
Sure, if you get an optimal draw Silver is pretty fast. But by definition, most draws are not optimal. It's also getting more difficult to make a straight by-the-numbers rescue early on. I have a FBTN deck and a couple of years ago I took third in T1 2-player at MN state with it. It used to be a great deck. Now it's probably just above average, because there is so much more cannot-be-prevented or cannot-be-negated characters and enhancements in recent sets, not to mention the "my enhancements can't be prevented lost soul" and all the anti-more-than-1-or-2-brigades cards.
Frankly, and this may be going off on a tangent, I think we've overdone it with the cannot-be-negated cards. And I realize that one of the cards I posted above cannot be negated (well, on a WC angel anyway)! It's a vicious cycle that feeds on itself. The more CBN/CBP is out there, the more CBN/CBP we want. And we want it so that we don't have to worry about early Captains, TSAs, King of Tyrus, big FBTN banding chains, interrupt the battle, and so forth. We want it so that we know our SA's will always work regardless of what the opponent throws our way.
But all of this comes at a cost. We've significantly weakened good FBTN cards that have historically been some of the best cards in the game. I wasn't in Redemption when all the FTBN decks were winning big tournaments (I think that was a year or two before I got into it), but honestly I don't see what's wrong with a good FBTN deck winning, or at least placing in the top 3-4 at a big tournament.
While I'm at it, I'll add that when I started playing Redemption a few years ago, King David and Widow were about all there was for pre-block ignores. Occasionally certain people - who shall not be named in the interest of protecting the guilty - would throw in a Miriam or Jochebed or Journey to Egypt to tweak my Egyptian deck. But these two cards were rarely played.
Today, there are so many pre-block ignores (Garden Tomb on all 39 characters :-) ) and one-hit wonders (Uzzah, Trembling demon, etc.) that good decks don't seem to fight battles any more. The objective as explained to me by some players better than I is, how can I design a deck that does not let my opponent block (e.g. Garden Tomb)? Or if he does block, that does not let him play a card (Uzzah, Trembling Demon)? I have trouble understanding why that is good for the game. How does it make the game better? Who wants spend the time to play against a deck like that?
Well, anyway, I'm done ranting. :-) I have to go make coffee. TTYAL
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Alright, who let the other Prof hack into Egyptian's account?
Egyptian, the changing of dominant strategies is just how the game is evolving. One of the reasons the New Card Ideas exist (at least in my opinion) is to introduce cards that might help what you see as a potential problem with the current card set. If you don't like pre-block ignores, invent a card that counters that strategy. It's a creative way of saying this needs to change. Now does that mean that your card will end up in the next set? Maybe, maybe not. But I know that Rob and the playtesters are all proponents of player involvement.
As far as FBTN goes, there may come a day when it is again dominant strategy. But when you consider the fact that some people would band five Gathered TSA's together (before he was unique), with literally no counter, you can probably see why a change had to be made.
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Today, there are so many pre-block ignores...and one-hit wonders...that good decks don't seem to fight battles any more. The objective...is, how can I design a deck that does not let my opponent block..Or...play a card...How does it make the game better?
+1
Alright, who let the other Prof hack into Egyptian's account?
That is funny. And besides, I thought you were the "other" Prof :)
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That is funny. And besides, I thought you were the "other" Prof :)
To you, I'm the other, to me you're the other. That's just how it works.
FWIW, I was registered on here 2 months before you were. So there.
Jordan "The REAL Fake Prof" Alstad
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The sword is a little to good I think.
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To you, I'm the other, to me you're the other. That's just how it works.
Sounds fair to me :)
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The sword is a little to good I think.
yea +1 its way Op'd
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I think the SA is fine. With the amount of SA LS's around these days, I think we could use more cards with the ability to negate LS SA's (that don't take up your artifact slot and don't need a previous successful rescue to work). And Site access weapons are nice too.
That said, the X/X numbers (X=# of cards in hand) is overpowered. Put that baby on a WC Captain or TSA, and you have probably a 20/20 or 20/18 FBTN hero, and that's assuming you used a card on your opponent's turn, and didn't draw any cards outside of the draw phase. I think standard 'sword' abilities, 3/2, would suffice.
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i know... but Holder has access....? thats way OP'd :police:
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Why? Journey to Egypt is a CBN site access card. Is that overpowered? (I assume most who would answer yes to that question believe so more because it allows the Hero to ignore an entire Civilization, eh RR? ::))
Spear of Joshua is a WC Site access card, also.
Also, the concept of deliverance makes sense for site access abilities (see Angel of Deliverance).
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Why? Journey to Egypt is a CBN site access card. Is that overpowered? (I assume most who would answer yes to that question believe so more because it allows the Hero to ignore an entire Civilization, eh RR? ::))
Spear of Joshua is a WC Site access card, also.
Also, the concept of deliverance makes sense for site access abilities (see Angel of Deliverance).
oh why did i read it as " holder(player) has access to any site? :-\
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oh why did i read it as " holder(player) has access to any site? :-\
Oh, I see the confusion. You're right, the SA should say 'Hero has access'. A holder having access to any site doesn't make any sense. I didn't even realize that.
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oh why did i read it as " holder(player) has access to any site? :-\
Oh, I see the confusion. You're right, the SA should say 'Hero has access'. A holder having access to any site doesn't make any sense. I didn't even realize that.
you see my point. thanks
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You probably meant holder (of the sword) and then forgot you meant that.
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You probably meant holder (of the sword) and then forgot you meant that.
o_O :miss:
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Alright, who let the other Prof hack into Egyptian's account?
Not sure what this means. No one has hacked into my account as far as I know.
As far as FBTN goes, there may come a day when it is again dominant strategy. But when you consider the fact that some people would band five Gathered TSA's together (before he was unique), with literally no counter, you can probably see why a change had to be made.
Well, it seems the solution is/was to make TSA unique, right? Not to put out a bunch of cards that cannot be negated. :-)
I doubt that FBTN will again be a viable strategy. Once you put "cannot be negated" on a lot of cards, unless you're going to go back and errata those cards, FBTN is weakened. My FBTN deck which was quite good a couple of years ago is now just barely playable in a tournament today (gets an even score if I'm lucky).
-EgyPtiAn
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Alright, who let the other Prof hack into Egyptian's account?
Not sure what this means. No one has hacked into my account as far as I know.
He was just making a joke because you were railing against the "pre-block ignore" strategy part of Redemption and I happen to be a prominent voice along those lines :)