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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Game Play Variations => Topic started by: jtay on September 03, 2010, 01:46:45 AM
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I went to a local MTG get-together the other day with a friend. He taught me how to play a while ago, and he loaned me a deck to play with. Long story short, the whole affair wasn't too fun, but I did get an idea out of it. The style everyone was playing was called EDH (Elder Dragon Highlander), which, as I understand it, is supposed to encourage casual play. The most notable quality of this style that I noticed was the way points were awarded to the players. There was a printed list of things that you could do in-game that would earn you more points toward your score, and I found some of them to be pretty hilarious. I can't remember any specific ones, but here's a couple not-so-hilarious ones that I found on the internet:
+2 Bonuses:
Blackjack - Control two creatures whose total power is exactly 21.
Near Death experience - Be at 1 life with an empty stack.
Got Your Back - Save an opponent from taking lethal damage.
There were also some penalties:
-2 Penalties:
But We Just Started - Eliminate a player before their fifth turn.
Don't Pass Go - Take more than two turns in a row.
I think it would be cool if people played Redemption with similar obscure goals in mind. Here's a few ideas off the top of my head:
Have one of several obscure/unused artifacts discarded by your opponent.
Play two or more enhancements with no special ability in a battle.
Reenact an epic battle from the Bible (e.g. David vs. Goliath).
I'm sure other people could come up with more interesting ideas than these. Then all you have to do is assign point values and humorous titles to each of these and you're good to go! I figure you can tally points in addition to lost soul scores to see who comes out on top at the end of the tournament. Even if no one actually does this, I would love to see what kinds of quirky (and not so quirky) things you would award points for.
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Oh man, this idea is so cool! I'm in love <3
I'd say 1 point for each LS rescued and 3 points for winning as a base (that way, you're still playing to win and get a 4+ point advantage over your opponent), and add the extra rules onto that. Such as:
-2 for playing Son of God
+2 for not having New Jerusalem in your deck
+2 for playing an Enhancement with no Special Ability on a character with no special ability
+2 for having a Lost Soul with no Special Ability in a deck with no FbtN LS
-2 for winning a battle without playing any Enhancements and playing a Dom
And so on and so on. This could be the most fun way to play the most fun card game.
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Oh man, this idea is so cool! I'm in love <3
I'd say 1 point for each LS rescued and 3 points for winning as a base (that way, you're still playing to win and get a 4+ point advantage over your opponent), and add the extra rules onto that. Such as:
-2 for playing Son of God
+2 for not having New Jerusalem in your deck
+2 for playing an Enhancement with no Special Ability on a character with no special ability
+2 for having a Lost Soul with no Special Ability in a deck with no FbtN LS
-2 for winning a battle without playing any Enhancements and playing a Dom
And so on and so on. This could be the most fun way to play the most fun card game.
Would these points be added to win scores or to LS diff?
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It'd be entirely different since it wouldn't be official. The winner of the game is determined by whoever has the most points. So Johnny could easily beat Spike. For example, using just these rules, player A could win 5-1 and still lose if he played SoG/NJ and won a battle with AotL and CM, while his opponent didn't have NJ in his deck. Now, if player A had not used CM to win a battle, it would have been a tie (since it would have been 5-2 but he wouldn't have been docked 2 points). So it is extremely difficult to win if you're not using a good deck and get blown out of the water LS-wise, but at the same time, if you disregard the extra rules and just run a Nationals-level deck with no modifications, you'll probably lose.
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reminds me of the final fantasy tactics gameboy games, where each level/battle had a random set of laws, and if one of your characters broke a law, the judge would come and remove that character from battle and throw him in jail. :)
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New rule: if you use TGT you go to jail.
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reminds me of the final fantasy tactics gameboy games, where each level/battle had a random set of laws, and if one of your characters broke a law, the judge would come and remove that character from battle and throw him in jail. :)
(goes into the fetal position)
healing spells shouldn't be holy, healing spells shouldn't be holy, healing spells shouldn't be holy
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I like your list. I don't think points should be deducted for having a card (NJ) in your deck though, but only if you use it. I like the balance that comes with your idea; if you win by playing SoG/NJ, then the points you gain from the win are eliminated by the use of SoG/NJ.
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Although it can be worth it to grab the +3 for winning.
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New rule: if you use TGT you go to jail.
Nice!
How 'bout -5 for playing Falling Away.
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Okay, so I've got some time to come up with some of these. Some will be based on a list of EDH Victory points I found, some will be based on what others have already said, and some will be original. All bonuses are assuming a Type 1 Multi-player game is being played. Here we go.
+1 Bonuses
Can't Touch This - Win 3 battles with immunity.
Empty Alley - Draw no lost souls for 3 or more turns in a row.
Evenly Matched - End 2 or more battles in a stalemate.
Friendly Fire - Discard a hero and an evil character at the same time.
Hide and Seek - Have 3 or more occupied forts in play or set-aside area.
Indiana Jones - Have 4 or more artifacts active at one time.
It's Quiet... Too Quiet - Don't make a rescue attempt for 3 or more turns.
Juggernaut - Win 2 battles in the same battle phase with the same character.
Lay Down Your Life - Rescue a soul via mutual destruction.
Luck of the Draw - Win a battle on turn one.
Mind Reader - Look at (or reveal) opponent's hand 3 or more times.
Nail Biter - Win the game by only one lost soul difference.
Pumped Up - Permanently increase one of your character's abilities by 5/5 or more.
Spiritual Revival - Convert 3 or more evil characters.
Strength in Weakness - Win a battle with a character that has no special ability.
Thief! - Use an opponent's own enhancement against him.
Totally Legit - Win the game with a rescue attempt.
Turncoat - Use an opponent's own character against him 2 or more times.
Vendetta - Discard, shuffle, or otherwise remove one of an opponent's characters from play 2 or more times during a game.
War Party - Have 3 or more weapon class enhancements (of the same alignment) in play.
What's in a Name? - Receive a name-on-name bonus 2 or more times during the game.
Yeah I gots numbrs - Defeat a Fight by the Numbers character by the numbers.
? - Win a battle challenge in which at least one hero and one evil character participate.
+2 Bonuses
Bases Loaded - Have at least one hero or evil character from every brigade in your territory.
Battle Royale - Win a battle in which 3 or more heroes and 3 or more evil characters participate.
Got your Back - Save an opponent from losing a battle.
I Gotta Hand it to You - End a battle with zero cards in your hand.
Old School - Win a battle by playing a single-color enhancement with no special ability.
Retreat! - Withdraw from battle 3 or more times in a game.
Slave Trader - Have 5 or more heroes in your land of bondage.
Slow and Steady - All opponents deck out before you.
Submarine - Win a battle with a character that was previously face down this turn (not in draw pile).
+3 Bonuses
Destroyed Evidence - End the game with zero cards in your discard pile.
Historical Accuracy - Re-enact a battle from the Bible with the actual characters that were involved. (Both players receive the bonus.)
Lone Ranger - Win the game with one hero in battle and no heroes in territory.
Questing - Rescue 2 lost souls with a converted evil character.
-1 Penalties
Win a battle with Angel of the Lord
Win a battle with Christian Martyr
Play Falling Away
Remove 3 or more of an opponent's characters from play at one time
-2 Penalties
Play Son of God
Play New Jerusalem
I'll probably come up with more later, and I'll add others as people mention them.
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I like your list. I don't think points should be deducted for having a card (NJ) in your deck though, but only if you use it. I like the balance that comes with your idea; if you win by playing SoG/NJ, then the points you gain from the win are eliminated by the use of SoG/NJ.
I agree. Points should be awarded for playing, not deck building.
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+1 Bonuses
Luck of the Draw - Win a battle on turn one.
This should be a -1.
+2 Bonuses
Old School - Win a battle by playing a single-color enhancement with no special ability.
This should be worth +5 or something. It would mean that someone actually put an enhancement like this in their deck (which is tough enough) AND that they are actually able to use it at the right time to win a battle (amazingly hard).
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-50
STAMP: Redeem a demon
+50
Nice Guy:You may allow your opponent to mulligan at the beginning of the game. If he decides to, you get the points.
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This is a sweet idea. I'd be all for playing some games like this. You guys should come up a top 25 for +'s and -'s and agree upon the #'s, so decks can be put together and game can be played.
Daniel
;D
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+1 Bonuses
Luck of the Draw - Win a battle on turn one.
This should be a -1.
+2 Bonuses
Old School - Win a battle by playing a single-color enhancement with no special ability.
This should be worth +5 or something. It would mean that someone actually put an enhancement like this in their deck (which is tough enough) AND that they are actually able to use it at the right time to win a battle (amazingly hard).
I don't want to punish someone for getting a lucky draw. Besides, if it were -1, the defending player's best option would be to not defend, since he would get a -1 score if he did successfully defend and the score would balance out if he let the hero win.
As for the second one, I want to keep the numbers reasonably small, preferably with an absolute value of 3 or less since that's how it is in MTG. Or at least keep in three tiers. I figure +1's can be achieved by adding a few cards to the deck, +2's with carefully planned deck building, and +3's should depend on both players' decks. The actual amounts could be adjusted (to, say, +1, +3, +5) if balance is an issue.
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Strength in weakness + 1
Use a character with no special ability
Slow and steady + 2
Deck out your opponent
I gotta hand it to you + 2
Your opponents hand reaches 0 after all special abilities have resolved.
Slave Trader + 2
Have 7 or more heroes in your land of bondage
Biblical correctness + 1
Block with a Hero with a fitting evil character (David Vs Goliath, John the Bap vs Salome/Herod ant/herodias etc.)
Who needs a theme? + 2
Play a deck with no central theme (Strategies are allowed).
It's over 9000! + 3
Win a game (Within time limits) with a 153 deck.
Playing CM - 1
(Nuff said)
Playing AOTL -1
Playing Nj - 2
Playing Falling away - 1
Doubt yourself + 3
Win a battle with doubt (via enhancement or #s. Just like Pot's wife)
Buckler -2/+2
Cuz its Buckler.
Name on Name + 1
Play a name on name bonus.
Biblical Correctness + 1
Play a Non Name on name card that is part of that character story (Jawbone/Samson)
I hate Rainbows - 2
Have more than 4 brigades of one alignment in play.
No more heroes + 1
After your opponent is decked, leave him/her with no heroes in territory for three turns.
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I added a few of yours to the list. Some were (pseudo)duplicates which I left off and others were modified slightly. I particularly liked Slave Trader, though 7 seemed a bit high.
I'm sorry that my choices seem so subjective. If I didn't add one of yours to the list that you think I should have, by all means call me out on it.
Here's a few explanations:
It's Over 9000 and Who Needs a Theme? - I'd rather not award points based on deck content.
No More Heroes - It seems like you would have to suffer the -1 penalty for removing >3 characters from play at a time in order to get this achievement. Something about that doesn't seem right.
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I can understand deck content, I just like encouraging weird decks. For Doubt I'd really suggest 2 or more. First off you have to USE doubt (which doesn't happen often) Then you have to get init (0/12, good luck) and not get negated/itb+ Bw'd
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Block with Doubt and use Gates to bring in KoT. 10/24 BTN.
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Block with Doubt and use Gates to bring in KoT. 10/24 BTN.
Is giving up your fort worth + 1?
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I'm thinking of this in a t2 sense where I have 3 gates. Yes, it is worth it. I used demons all of last year and there was rarely a time I would end up using all 3 gates.
You could also use Doubt + Unholy Writ.
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I hate to be Debbie Downer over here... but I want to express some of the flaws I see so that this could be really fun (Love the idea!)
1. There's WAY too much about deck building. Bonuses that require lame cards like doubt and no special ability cards I think just encourage people to make stupid decks just so that they can win in points. I think it would be very much more fun to have two national competitor decks that try to do rediculous things, such as:
1. Win 3 battle challenges or more -- Tyrant (+2)
2. Win the game by 1 lost soul -- Defense! (+1)
3. Discard TGT -- People's Champion (+2 for every player in the game, including yourself)
4. Win the game with a rescue attempt -- Starder Deck N00B
5. Win a battle challenge and a rescue attempt in one battle phase -- Juggernaut
6. Use Buckler -- Buckler Brigade! (+3) (yeah, this is based on deck building but it's buckler) ;D
I just think that these types of abilities would be a LOT more fun, so that people can take their awesome decks and then mess around with each other.
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I think that one of the defining characteristics of a different style of play is that it requires a different style of deck. I admit that it would be interesting to see high tier decks face off with these different methods of obtaining points, but the purpose of this style of play, just as it is in MTG, should be to promote casual play.
I can certainly see where you're coming from, though. Even when I formed the idea, I was sure that this style (if it ever caught on) would likely be doomed to the same fate that MTG's EDH had already met. The part of my little story that I left off was what exactly went on at the MTG league meet that I went to. Despite the spirit of the style, some people were bringing decks that they could use to milk as many points out of the system as possible before winning in a manner that was just short of receiving penalties. I hoped that Redemption's mechanics might work better with this spirit than MTG's did.
I also agree with you about awarding points for doing things with certain cards (Doubt, TGT, etc.), and am considering removing the one from my list regarding Doubt. This seems just short of awarding points for deck content. And I don't think "stupid decks" should be an issue. You can only build in so many ways to gain points before your deck becomes unable to perform well, in which case you would likely lose. The trick is finding the right combination of cards that is most likely to generate the most points while still maintaining functionality.
That said, I'm going to add a few of your suggestions to the list, and remove the Doubt one.
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I'm much less excited about this than I was at first. It seems that everyone is wanting to neuter the possibilities of how points are awarded/deducted as much as possible. What's wrong with points for deck content? Or even if that's out (I can at least see where you're coming from), why all the hating on points that deal with specific cards? Shouldn't the nature of the beast be that you alter your deckbuilding to account for the fact that you're playing a different type? People don't use the same deck for Multi and 2-Player and Teams...
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Not sure about deckbuilding ones, but we could steal a page from FF:TA's playbook, and randomly choose some of the gameplay +#/-# every game.
+1 Can't Touch This: Win three battles with immunity
+1 NERD!: Reference Firefly, Dr. Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galatica and XKCD during table talk. (Yes, this has happened)
+3 Questing: Rescue 2 LS with converted EC's
-1 Too easy: Win 5-0
+1 Solitaire: Lose 5-0
+2 Mimetime: Complete a battle where both players don't say a word
+2 Redemption: The Musical: Complete a battle where both players communicate only through song
+1 Zombie: Return a hero from the discard pile to play twice (Heal doesn't count)
+1 Why?: Win a battle challenge standing on one leg
+1 Taking Sides: Start two side battles
-2 NPE: Win two battles without letting your opponent play a card
(goes into the fetal position)
healing spells shouldn't be holy, healing spells shouldn't be holy, healing spells shouldn't be holy
But then it's useless against zombies
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Hint: If you're making a post with a bunch of +1's, check the "Don't use smileys" box under Additional Options.
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I'm much less excited about this than I was at first. It seems that everyone is wanting to neuter the possibilities of how points are awarded/deducted as much as possible. What's wrong with points for deck content? Or even if that's out (I can at least see where you're coming from), why all the hating on points that deal with specific cards? Shouldn't the nature of the beast be that you alter your deckbuilding to account for the fact that you're playing a different type? People don't use the same deck for Multi and 2-Player and Teams...
I completely agree. :( I don't wanna use the same deck as I do for t1 on this format.
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The nerd one is way OP I would get it like every game
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The nerd one is way OP I would get it like every game
Only when your age is one less than a multiple of 3.
*Blip* Nerd Achievement Unlocked *Blip*
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I'm much less excited about this than I was at first. It seems that everyone is wanting to neuter the possibilities of how points are awarded/deducted as much as possible. What's wrong with points for deck content? Or even if that's out (I can at least see where you're coming from), why all the hating on points that deal with specific cards? Shouldn't the nature of the beast be that you alter your deckbuilding to account for the fact that you're playing a different type? People don't use the same deck for Multi and 2-Player and Teams...
Exactly. This is supposed to be n00b-friendly, and slightly wacky if I have any say.
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The nerd one is way OP I would get it like every game
Only when your age is one less than a multiple of 3.
*Blip* Nerd Achievement Unlocked *Blip*
heh, thats exactly what this reminded me of...xbox achievements.
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I'm liking the list so far, keep the ideas coming. I think it still needs something having to do with fortresses. I was thinking of giving a point for having 5 or more characters placed in fortresses and calling it "Hide and Seek," but considering how many forts allow more than I wasn't sure. I think there's still a few other categories that haven't been covered in the list (healing and set aside come to mind). Also some of the names I came up with aren't very interesting, so make some suggestions for those too.
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I'm liking the list so far, keep the ideas coming. I think it still needs something having to do with fortresses. I was thinking of giving a point for having 5 or more characters placed in fortresses and calling it "Hide and Seek," but considering how many forts allow more than I wasn't sure. I think there's still a few other categories that haven't been covered in the list (healing and set aside come to mind). Also some of the names I came up with aren't very interesting, so make some suggestions for those too.
If you have 3 or more occupied forts?
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If you have 3 or more occupied forts?
Ooh! I like that!
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Enter battle with a face-down card -- Flashlight Tag
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+ 1
Friendly Fire-Discard A Hero and a EC with the same Card
Its Quiet...Too Quiet-dont make a rescue attempt for 3 turns
Empty Alley- dont draw lost souls for 2 turns
+2
Retreat!-withdraw 3 times this game
Submarine- win a battle with a Hero that was face down this turn
5+
Machine Gun-Discard all Characters in opponents territory by the end of turn
Mind Reader-look at opponents hand 4+ times this game
Lone Ranger-Win the game with one hero in battle and none in territory
Necropost-make opponent mad by bringing a card from discard pile back into the field of play
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Mind reader is way too easy. U+T
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Machine Gun could be done a lot in an early game.
Necropost would be pretty easy too, depending on how 'mad' is defined.
Retreat would be easy also, but its okay beings it would cost 3 rescues.
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We should remember these so we can start compiling aggregate scores and unlock achievements for people when the game gets released on XBLA. ;D
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1-
FBTN- nuff' said
You still have 2 left- win with a Sog and NJ
Use a dominant-nuff' said
5-
Modern Warfare-have no Card Older than Apostles
Modern Warfare 2-have no cards older than Angel Wars
TGT-More Than nuff' said
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The Modern Warfare cards will never come into play. The Big Four doms are all pre-Apostles.
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+3
UNDERDOG: Win a battle with egyptians and judges.
CREATION: Play ANB more than 3 times in a game.
BUCKLER: nuff said.
GOTCHA: Bluff your opponent at least twice in a game.
FBTN: nuff said gain.
GOOD ENOUGH: Use an AOC.
COMBOCOMBOCOMBO : Use a combo on your opponent more than 3 times. (No, SoG and NJ aren't a combo)
FOOL ME ONCE...: Use the same combo on your opponent twice.
LAST MAN STANDING: Make a successful block with an evil character that has been protected from a discard ability before the battle.
WHIMPER: Make your opponent cry. This bonus doubles if your opponent is male.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST: have no characters in play except those that are at least 10/10. this cannot be done on your first turn.
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Someone really needs to fill me in on what all this obsession with buckler is all about.
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UNDERDOG: Win a battle with egyptians and judges
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
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WHIMPER: Make your opponent cry. Then, feel bad and give her a GOYS.
I hate changing a post and then posting fix'd, and I -1 everyone I see do it.... but I just had to for Wild Bill's sake.
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+2 Master, Padawan: Teach your opponent something new.
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+2 Master, Padawan: Teach your opponent something new.
YES YES YES YES
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If I beat Gabe, can I then be granted teaching him something new: how to lose? ;D
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I don't think that's possible.
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I don't know how long Magic has been doing this, but Star Wars CCG has been doing this for a long time (12 years?). Basically, you would have a tournament or series of tourneys (League) with the set point values in place. You still get 3 points for a win, but the extra points get added on. The person with the most points at the end of the tournament (or league) wins.
I do think some of the ones you have are really too easy. But that's my opinion...
Eric "Neat idea" Largent
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+3 Eric "Achievement Unlocked" Largent: Create an achievement that Eric thinks is hard.
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Haha the M's post is hidden because it got a -10! :rollin:
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Haha the M's post is hidden because it got a -10! :rollin:
what post?
lolz u lier u deleted it :laugh: :( :laugh:
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Haha the M's post is hidden because it got a -10! :rollin:
what post?
Alright guys... we all know what we do to people who delete their posts.... make his LAST one -10!
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the one befor it of after it(i my not spaming)
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This thread started out so exciting and then it suddenly died.
Would anyone be interested in playing a tournament with this? It'd be a cool project, I'd be willing to host/co-host/provide prizes.
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Totally, as long as it's in Rochester.
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Rochester, NY? or Rochester, MN? or Rochester, MI?
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Rochester, NY. Home of the Raiders!
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I've played EDH and in the variant you have a general and your deck can only contain brigades that the general has. In this variant you could have a good general and an evil general. When the general dies he goes to the set aside area and there has to be a cost in order to bring him back. When the general redeems a soul or successfully blocks you get some bonus. and the reason its called Highlander? THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!
1 of a card in a 100 card deck.
Armageddon rule applies: If General successfully blocks a RA or Battle Challenge, Fall Away a lost soul.
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haha, highlander...memories.