Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Other Gaming => Game Design => Topic started by: Lramos89 on June 13, 2017, 02:13:18 PM

Title: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Lramos89 on June 13, 2017, 02:13:18 PM
                   Hello everyone! Does anyone out there have programming experience, computer animation experience, or sound technician experience? I'm looking to make a Redemption app for iOS and Android. My goal is to make it so one could play online with friends and other random players looking for matches. It will have a campaign-like single player mode with rewards. It will have every card from every expansion but they must be purchased via micro-transactions in booster form. It will be fully animated and have sound effects for everything. I'm also looking for illustrators and designers willing to join the team and bless the Redemption community by allowing it to blow up and be recognized by millions more.
                 There aren't too many faith-based game apps out there and I believe many Christian parents would rather have their children playing Redemption TCG Online than Candy Crush or Clash of Whatever. If the Redemption community backs this tremendous step forward, we could have this app running sooner than later and see thousands of people playing the Redemption app and, with the link to the Three Lions Gaming site and Cactus Game Design site, they will be able to order cards and merchandise through the app as well.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: kariusvega on June 13, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
THANK YOU GOD FINALLY!! I do professional animation and sound design!! Gabe and Daniel are the other guys who could contribute majorly to this project I have been hoping and praying for for nearly 2 years!!
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Watchman on June 13, 2017, 04:10:00 PM
I'd be willing to help sponsor and financially support this project if the app will also include the ability for users to purchase Redemption products and card supplies from my business, Your Turn Games.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Reth on June 13, 2017, 04:39:19 PM
Hi there,

 I've some rusted software development and programming knowhow based on my studies, first years in working life and hobby (more or less classic software development - not really apps so far) - but not much time for things like these.
This project is a quite huge and challanging one an also needs a well-thought and comprehensive planning and approach if it might get started. What's your general idea to lead and coordinate it?

Bye
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: TheHobbit13 on June 13, 2017, 04:39:53 PM
um micro-transactions when lackey is free? 
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Ironisaac on June 13, 2017, 04:43:16 PM
um micro-transactions when lackey is free? 


Yeah i was just thinking that... with lackey already available for free, i feel like it would be pretty hard to monetize this...
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Lramos89 on June 13, 2017, 05:26:32 PM
Lackey, although it is free, is not a very well known program and it doesn't have a mobile version. Many of you have only heard of Lackey through Redemption. I know over 100 people personally who own large collections of Yu-Gi-OH cards and still play the Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Links app and buy through minitransactions in attempts to rebuild their decks. Do not underestimate the collector factor. Also, believe it or not, not many people have even heard of the Redemption card game, and I believe this app could introduce them to the game. Minitransactions are a great way to ensure a line of income for future development and for Cactus Game Design to receive additional revenue in order to release more expansions. My role as of now is all of the above and design, hence the search for different talent and advisers. I am looking for like-minded individuals to work with me, not for me.   
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Watchman on June 13, 2017, 05:29:48 PM
Lramos, I'm curious to know how long you've been playing Redemption for.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Daniel on June 13, 2017, 05:49:13 PM
Without significant funding a project like this will go nowhere.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: BanjoMan on June 13, 2017, 05:49:42 PM
um micro-transactions when lackey is free? 


Yeah i was just thinking that... with lackey already available for free, i feel like it would be pretty hard to monetize this...
One could simply advertise how user-friendly the app could be, something LackeyCCG lacks severely. Mobility is another factor to consider as well. However, building a streamline application while remaining competitive with free software is challenging. I'm not sure if the idea is feasible.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: kariusvega on June 13, 2017, 05:53:40 PM
i've honestly expected to fork $2,000,000 to do this app properly
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Lramos89 on June 13, 2017, 06:14:52 PM
Without significant funding a project like this will go nowhere.
I'm sure many people said those same exact words to Rob when Redemption began and to an extent I agree with you. I have already received confirmation from various companies that are willing to sponsor and financially support this project once we get Rob's approval. What I'm doing in this forum is opening the doors to fans, collectors, and players in the Redemption community with the skills and talents to be a part of this project that has been on the drawing board for some time. Though this topic was posted today, it is not the primary networking source. I just thought it would be fair to involve the Redemption community and allow them to have input, as opposed to using a team of professionals who have no idea what Redemption is. My personal email is in my profile. Anyone who seriously wants to be involved and has skills or ideas to share in this project feel free to email me and I will add you to the communication chain. Thank you and God bless.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 13, 2017, 06:54:05 PM
Good luck and God Bless on this project.

I have already received confirmation from various companies that are willing to sponsor and financially support this project once we get Rob's approval.
Just for my own curiosity are these companies aware that the total Redemption player base numbers in the low hundreds (if that)?
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Daniel on June 13, 2017, 06:56:03 PM
Without significant funding a project like this will go nowhere.
I'm sure many people said those same exact words to Rob when Redemption began

And they were right.

Sorry for sounding skeptical, it's just that many people have attempted to create more or less this exact same thing, only to be met by the many limitations such a project is subject to (mostly limited money, waning enthusiasm, and lack of interest). Take a look at Redemption Live and Redemption Connect for examples of this. That said, I'm glad you've decided to involve the Redemption community in your project! And of course I hope you succeed.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: wyatt_marcum on June 13, 2017, 07:49:10 PM
I don't have much experience with programming apps and such, but I could help with some pseudo programming. It isn't much, but I will help wherever I can.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Lramos89 on June 13, 2017, 10:34:53 PM
Without significant funding a project like this will go nowhere.
Take a look at Redemption Live and Redemption Connect for examples of this.

Redemption Live and Redemption Connect were completely different than an iOS and Android app.
I appreciate your concern, for it is a valid one. Just keep this in your prayers and we will see great things.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: uthminister [BR] on June 13, 2017, 11:13:42 PM
Having had conversations with Lramos89 for quite some time now, I am confident that we will be able to see this through. As Vega said before, there have been folks praying for something like this to become a reality. May God bless our current efforts and make our way forward.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Daniel on June 21, 2017, 09:10:56 PM
What's the update on this? Lol
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: kariusvega on June 21, 2017, 09:18:34 PM
we are (at this moment) in an online meeting and developing the foundation :)

would you mind designing a welcome page? maybe the opening screen?
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: kariusvega on June 21, 2017, 09:22:24 PM
here is a screenshot of our current progress

Spoiler (hover to show)

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Reth on June 22, 2017, 06:11:48 PM
I would be interested in the entire setup for this venture - also wrote this to Lramos89. So how will collaboration and coordination work etc. ...
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on June 22, 2017, 07:12:32 PM
If this was an App I would be on a LOT. I don't have the time for Lackey due to being at work without my laptop but an app on my phone!? Yeah, I could squeeze a game in while riding launch for a few hours...
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Isildur on June 23, 2017, 12:34:34 AM
I'll emerge from my hiatus with a question. Would you guys be streamlining the game at all?

I can't imagine how difficult it would be to code the game with Redemption's VERY complex ruleset. Part of the reason I stopped being active in the community was because of the now VERY complex rules.

Hearthstone for example is a mess when it comes to coding and that game is much simpler than Redemption and Magic and is run by a multimillion dollar dedicated gaming corp. Hearthstone still has spaghetti code and it's been out for over 3 years.

If you've played any video game TCG's that require steps or counter play during another opponents turn it can get very tedious to play online with other people. Look at MTG Online (which note never made it to IOS, Andriod, Mac or Steam, it's a PC only thing), if you watch game play a significant amount of it is just passing the phase.

I can totally see this becoming a thing for PC or Mac but I'm not sure Redemption can fly on IOS or Android without being significantly streamlined via either the cards released for the platform or with slight gameplay changes.

I hope you guys succeed but what has stopped most people before you has been the coding and with how complex the rules are for Redemption now that problem will only compound itself.

Also the images you guys posted looks great but I can't imagine having 20+ cards in territory on the field and having a 5+ card battle going on all at once on a phone let alone a iPad screen. Doable for PC or Mac but way too much stuff on a tiny phone or iPad screen.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: kariusvega on June 23, 2017, 01:43:01 AM
i agree and everyone can say it can't be done and as long as they do guess what!

it won't be! :) that's why we are making it happen

this is definitely going to mobile
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Reth on June 23, 2017, 02:18:41 AM
Images? Thought those were a joke by kariusvega? Here they are not shown when moving the mouse over - withing all other threads in this board I can see all images (also in the RoJ thread). Can I see them somewhere else?
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Isildur on June 23, 2017, 03:17:10 PM
i agree and everyone can say it can't be done and as long as they do guess what!

it won't be! :) that's why we are making it happen

this is definitely going to mobile
Best of luck!

Consider though streamlining the game. I know a number years ago there was rustle about rebooting the game to simplify things but it never made it past theoretical cards and set ideas due to the game not being big enough for a reboot.

Talk with the playtesters and even talk to us on the boards! You have dozens of people who would be more than happy to help with balancing and gameplay!

In regards to simplifying...

From a visual standpoint. If you to just have 5 heroes, 5 EC's, 1 art, 2 forts, lost souls, no sites and a hand of say 8 cards, you still have a potential almost 30 cards on a single side of the field!!! just for one player!!! Hearthstone gets hectic sometimes and there is a max of 14 cards in play between both! players at anytime (not counting hand size). The Elder Scrolls Legends is very similar with a max of 16 cards on the field (not counting hand size) at all times. Magic Duels (the ghetto version of Magic online) never made it to phones and I believe there was still a max field size ect. for the game.

You guys shouldn't write off simplifying the game if you are 100% set on going mobile/tablet. Simplifying the game not only makes it much more manageable from a playability standpoint but you've also simplified the amount of coding you need to do and increased your ability to port the game.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on June 23, 2017, 07:56:21 PM
Maybe make the app only for type half to see how it runs?
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: EmJayBee83 on June 24, 2017, 10:56:21 AM
If you've played any video game TCG's that require steps or counter play during another opponents turn it can get very tedious to play online with other people. Look at MTG Online (which note never made it to IOS, Andriod, Mac or Steam, it's a PC only thing), if you watch game play a significant amount of it is just passing the phase.
QFT.

Little known fact. Back before I created the Lackey plugin, I spent a considerable chunk of time (around six months or so) working on an OCTGN (http://octgn.net/) plugin for Redemption. The reason for trying OCTGN first was that it let you script card abilities and game flow.  So when a player played Hur, the opponent would automatically be asked to select a card to keep, and after the selection the shuffle in and draw would take place automatically. (The first cards I got working were ANB and Hur.) Despite considerable effort I was forced to scrap the idea. So what was the problem?

This type of scripted game engine works best when a game has a linear flow (or nearly so). Redemption, on the other hand specializes in non-linear game interactions what with interrupts, negates, cascaded negates, special initiative, dominant play, artifact play, etc. For one example, if the app doesn't include Dominants, you are not really playing Redemption. To get dominant play correct prior to every single action the system would need to ask each player if they would like to play a dominant. This manual interaction is tedious (to say the least), and the amount of it needed for a scripted version of Redemption would be large.

In the end, I decided the best player experience would be to allow people to just play. Make them manually place cards on the table. Let them send a chat to "Stop I am going to play AotL." Redemption is a game best enjoyed by having people play in real time.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: kariusvega on June 24, 2017, 12:44:44 PM
Lackey does a wonderful job of providing all of the functions necessary to play Redemption giving versed players the liberty to do so.

Eventually we'll have a tutorial and teaching function which will have times where it may (for example) suggest playing a dominant to familiarize players with when these kinds of game functions may happen. However, further along their own progression it will be more free flowing.

Trying to have a humble beginning by making a 1:1 Lackey mirror in the Unreal Engine (which is free to download for anyone reading) with only the I/J starter decks to begin with. This will give us at minimum what we need to make this a teaching tool for entry level digital Redemption awareness, and what ultimately the entire game can emerge from.

We really need more programmers and people who can contribute to this first stepping stone.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Zerutul on July 11, 2017, 10:28:29 AM
                   Hello everyone! Does anyone out there have programming experience, computer animation experience, or sound technician experience? I'm looking to make a Redemption app for iOS and Android. My goal is to make it so one could play online with friends and other random players looking for matches. It will have a campaign-like single player mode with rewards. It will have every card from every expansion but they must be purchased via micro-transactions in booster form. It will be fully animated and have sound effects for everything. I'm also looking for illustrators and designers willing to join the team and bless the Redemption community by allowing it to blow up and be recognized by millions more.
                 There aren't too many faith-based game apps out there and I believe many Christian parents would rather have their children playing Redemption TCG Online than Candy Crush or Clash of Whatever. If the Redemption community backs this tremendous step forward, we could have this app running sooner than later and see thousands of people playing the Redemption app and, with the link to the Three Lions Gaming site and Cactus Game Design site, they will be able to order cards and merchandise through the app as well.

Hey! So my name is Andrew Gotzon and I play redemption in Missouri, just got back into it after not playing for around 4 years. I actually do have experience programming (I currently work at a company called Cerner in KCMO which is a health IT company). Mostly I prefer back-end/database management work but I also have experience in front-end development. Mostly through javascript/angularJS. If you needed help might I suggest contacting me, but even more then that posting what code you currently have on a public repository on GitHub. That way you can have many different people contribute to the code without having to "pass it" from person to person. Not sure if you have a Repo for your code but if you do then I would be glad to contribute!
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Ironica on October 17, 2017, 02:13:34 PM
Don't know if it's still going on but I still believe (posted it somewhere else) that any app like this should only use starter decks.  The rules for them are simple, more or less straight forward, and can get others into the game and start getting actual cards (or play on Lackey).  Maybe the "campaign" can be used to unlock other starter decks and then you can have bonus cards from other sets (that do not have complicated specials or rules that are complicated for them (e.g. Hur)) as only retrievable through either collecting a truck load of coins or spending money for it (see Marvel Puzzle app for example).  I would love to have a mobile game but do think you need to start small and work your way up.

Another suggestion (though might not be popular) is to change some of the special abilities to make it simpler (Yu-Gi-Oh did this for their video games).
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: LordZardeck on February 21, 2018, 10:30:46 PM
So totally necro'ing this post, but if you are serious about developing this, please talk with me. I have spent the past 7 years with over 5 iterations trying to make this work. The biggest issue is trying to fit the UI to make it usable. Redemption is a complex game, with TONS of cards that are capable of being played at once. I even had an agreement with Rob to let me make a commercial game that would span mobile and PC/Mac. I hired some devs to help me on it, and we started to make decent progress, but then I lost all my help. I still have the project archived, as I put it off until I could get dedicated help. It's one of my life goals to make a digital Redemption. While I left the Redemption scene, it never left my heart.

For those interested, the project is built using the unity engine, with C# as the scripting language.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: Reth on February 24, 2018, 04:38:21 PM
Since I am neither in unity nor in C# (well the latter one I assume might be learnable while applying it usefully to the unity engine will be the challenging part IMHO) - what about making it somehow more public? Asking this in appropriate fora of unity proggers? Or even more making it somehow public/open source as a GitHub project or so?
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: LordZardeck on February 24, 2018, 05:46:55 PM
Reth, the problem with that is in order to create a high quality game, it would need be commercial to afford all the costs associated with it, and it would be unwise to product source files to the public for such an endeavour. While making it open source would make it easier for the community to contribute, I have doubts as to if that would see the project to success.
Title: Re: Redemption TCG Online (iOS and Android app.)
Post by: TheJaylor on February 24, 2018, 06:01:07 PM
I don't have a whole lot of experience with C# or unity but I have done a little bit of JavaScript and wouldn't mind learning the necessary things. I have a fair amount of other programming experience (I'm currently a Computer Engineering student) so I may be able to help with some of the grunt work as my schedule allows. As a student I may not have very much time to work on it but if you would like to give me an "assignment" of sorts to help out I would certainly be willing to do so as I can.

Send me a PM if you feel like you could use me but I'm certainly nowhere near a commercial grade programmer so I'll understand if you don't need the kind of help I can offer, but that being said, I'm also willing to learn.

--Jayden Alstad
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