What are your issues with the movie?
It seems like everyone who loved TFA hated TLJ and vice versa.
ThisWhat are your issues with the movie?
It seems like everyone who loved TFA hated TLJ and vice versa.
My brothers and I just had an hour and a half discussion of everything we thought about the movie. I'll try to sum up the biggest issues with a huge spoiler warning:
There's so much more. They had so much potential, and it's all wasted.
Why do you love it? I really enjoy movies and such discussions.
It seems like everyone who loved TFA hated TLJ and vice versa.I enjoyed The Force Awakens, but more as a fun trifle. IMO, The Last Jedi is the second best Star Wars movie, trailing The Empire Strikes Back by just a skosh.*
1. How did the First Order find the rebel base?The same way the Empire found the rebel base in TESB or maybe not. The point is we already know a plausible way they could have done it, so providing details would not have added much if anything to the story.
2. How did the rebels know to evacuate said base before the fleet arrived?The same way the rebels knew to evacuate in TESB or maybe not. See above.
3. The First Order has more Star Destroyers (and a Dreadnaught) than the Empire did when they cornered the rebels on Hoth, and there are fewer rebels now to deal with. Yet, somehow, the rebels escape right under their noses.The rebels also got away in TESB, so I don't understand your point.
4. The Dreadnaught fires on the base first, and not the cruiser already in orbit, even though the base is going nowhere and the cruiser can leave at anytime.The fact that the cruiser could flee was rather immaterial. As General Hux said, "They cannot get away, Supreme Leader. We have them tied to the end of a string."
5. The Dreadnaught is ill-equipped to take down a single X wing fighter.Just like every other capital ship in the Star Wars universe ever.
6. How can the First Order track the cruiser at all?The First Order invented new hyperspace tracking technology. That was what Finn and Rose were trying to disable.
7. If the First Order can track the cruiser, why not the Millennium Falcon?I assume they could have tracked the Millenium Falcon through a hyperspace jump if they wanted to. Why do you believe otherwise?
8. Why can Kylo fly through the cruiser’s shields and destroy the main hangar bay?The same way a couple of A-Wings were able to fly through a Super Star Destroyer's shields and destroy its shield generators and then a single damaged A-Wing was able to destroy the Super Star Destroyer itself in RotJ.
9. If Kylo can do this, and if 2 Tie Fighters, of all things, can blow up the cruiser bridge even though Star Destroyer blasts aren’t penetrating the shields, why not send a vast assortment of Tie fighters to take out the then-nearly unarmed cruiser and its escorts?Why take the chance on losing any fighters if you can just wait for the ships to run out of fuel and then blast them? Also, Hux and Snoke probably enjoyed the sadism of it all.
10. Why do they call Kylo back when he needs no support (since there is no opposition)?'Cause he was too valuable a person to risk that the resistance had a trap to spring?
11. How do they know how much fuel the cruiser has in the first place,All they needed to know is that they have more fuel than the cruiser--much more.
and why do they not cut the cruiser off (send some Star Destroyers through hyperspace some ways ahead, ie setting a trap, like any ordinary person would)?Because hyperspace doesn't work that way in Star Wars. These kind of short range "microjumps" are possible only near significant gravity wells.
12. How does Leia not die immediately in space?Strange but true fact... Experiments have shown that humans can probably survive the vacuum of space for a couple of minutes. It took Leia less than that to return to the ship. (I am also not sure why this bothers you but Luke projecting himself across parsecs or transporting Han's lucky dice that same distance does not.)
I guess I don't understand how you can both like the original trilogy and find these kinds of "plot holes" troublesome. Pretty much each of these has an analog in one or more of the original trilogy.
Quote3. The First Order has more Star Destroyers (and a Dreadnaught) than the Empire did when they cornered the rebels on Hoth, and there are fewer rebels now to deal with. Yet, somehow, the rebels escape right under their noses.
The rebels also got away in TESB, so I don't understand your point.
Quote5. The Dreadnaught is ill-equipped to take down a single X wing fighter.Just like every other capital ship in the Star Wars universe ever.
Long story short, we can probably agree to disagree forever.Can we agree on the following?
Can we agree on the following?
Good things:
1. Mark Hamill tore up his scenes - He was good for what he was asked to do, but you can't convince me that Mark didn't get to play the character he wanted to and wasn't disappointed with their choices.
2. Kylo Ren is the best/most nuanced antagonist in any SW movie. - Best, no; most nuanced, yes. Most interesting, yes. Perhaps the third movie will clear up some things about him, but right now too much is unanswered.
3. The Rey/Kylo team up battle is amazing. - It was a cool sequence, despite Rey's inexplicable combat mastery against well-trained foes.
4. The Rey/Kylo long distance communication stuff was good. - Take out the awkward humor and it is.
5. Carrie Fisher's acting was excellent. - Didn't particularly stand out to me, as I think she's just passable in the OT and these movies.
6. Visuals/music were typical SW. - Goes without saying. But they reuse so much of the OT music.
Not so good things:
1. The main rebellion story line was just a slow motion chase. - Considering this is a large bulk of the story, this is a pretty big negative.
2. The casino mission existed just to give Finn/Rose something to do - Yes, absolutely pointless and distracting.
3. There were all the typical SW plot holes. - Yes, and then some.
4. The rebellion's brilliant escape plan was a big old rusty door. Pretty poor plan, but considering they were desperate and on the run, I'm surprised they had a plan at all.
5. Po should be arrested a a traitor. Yes, but worse, how Admiral Dern got any sort of position of power is beyond me.
2. Kylo Ren is the best/most nuanced antagonist in any SW movie. - Best, no; most nuanced, yes. Most interesting, yes. Perhaps the third movie will clear up some things about him, but right now too much is unanswered.
In your opinion who was a better SW antagonist than Kylo Ren (and why)?
3. The Rey/Kylo team up battle is amazing. - It was a cool sequence, despite Rey's inexplicable combat mastery against well-trained foes.
Given that you have mentioned Rey's continuing Mary Sue-ness as an issue a couple of times, how in the world did you love TFA? To me that was one of the most annoying things about TFA...
Rey--who has never been off planet--can jump in and pilot the Millenium Falcon. Not pilot it in the sense of just minimally get it flying--whioch would by itself be silly--but actually pilot it better than Han Solo. Not to mention when the Millenium Falcon needs repairs, Rey is better and diagnosing and fixing the problem then Han Solo. That is only one of a dozen examples and is by itself 100x worse then any problems with Rey in TLJ.
Also, I like Kylo Ren, but dang... still trying to figure him out, he is SO dysfunctional.+1 Dude is definitely messed up, dawg.
As to the latter, the real problem with Luke's arc, IMO, isn't in what took place on the island, as much as it was Luke's handling of Ben Solo years earlier.
Way to much projection of (perceived) modern culture and values (e.g., multicultural cast)
There was just not enough time allotted, and rightfully so, for them to explain meaningfully why a pilot that just died and Rose had a special bond.
it's the star-wars universe!The universe where everyone is from Nebraska.Yup. An entire galaxy, with literally thousands of habitable planets and whose most populous species is humans, has less diversity than our planet. Yup.
There was just not enough time allotted, and rightfully so, for them to explain meaningfully why a pilot that just died and Rose had a special bond. I guess it was because they were both Asian?
I don't want to be reminded explicitly of all the races on earth
Secondly, I don't know if my opinion represents the majority fan base
Yup. An entire galaxy, with literally thousands of habitable planets and whose most populous species is humans, has less diversity than our planet. Yup.
QuoteI don't want to be reminded explicitly of all the races on earth
There it is.
I regret voicing my doubts & insecurities in public.Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make good movie. I got more than that- @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill
2. There was no internet to give out spoilers, so I was shocked and appalled by the revelation that Darth Vader was Luke's father,
Did you believe that Darth Vader was Luke's father at the time? I remember being firmly in the camp of those who believed that Vader was lying simply to trick Luke into joining the Empire.
There are still people alive that saw the original Star Wars in theaters?! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo)
There are still people alive that saw the original Star Wars in theaters?! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo)Fortunately, Thomas Edison invented motion pictures just a few years earlier, so we had something to watch when we went in the theater. :)
There are still people alive that saw the original Star Wars in theaters?! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1uTsqJVAeo)Fortunately, Thomas Edison invented motion pictures just a few years earlier, so we had something to watch when we went in the theater. :)
As I watched "The Last Jedi," I could not help but feel that the director/writer was trying to recreate that feeling of uncertainty and unexpectedness. It did not work in "The Force Awakens" since I saw Han's death coming from a mile away. This movie seemed to be trying to set up cliche rescues, and then "shock" me with their failures. I know there is a lot of talk about the "wasted time" in Finn and Rose's trip to the casino planet, but I think that was all an attempt to trick me into thinking that their scheme would ultimately work. Similarly, I was supposed to believe that the shuttles would all sneak safely away onto the fortress planet, that Rey would escape Snoke to fight him another day, and that Luke was a dormant hero ready to become The Matrix's Neo...... However..... SURPRISE! None of that happened. I was supposed to be as shocked as I was in 1978 and 1980. Unfortunately, I wasn't.
*No seriously, YMT. I triple- and even quadruple-checked this time.
I wasn't even able to fool you once. :(*No seriously, YMT. I triple- and even quadruple-checked this time.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice.... :maul: