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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Entertainment => Topic started by: Master KChief on December 18, 2015, 03:27:04 AM

Title: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Master KChief on December 18, 2015, 03:27:04 AM

Just got back from it. Pretty good.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Isildur on December 18, 2015, 04:49:16 AM

I have some small quibbles with it as a movie its self (mostly related to the movie leaving out background info and leaving certain plot elements unraveled for the sake of having sequels)... but overall a very good movie!

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Gabe on December 18, 2015, 01:12:49 PM

I saw it this morning with my wife and 8 year old son. We all enjoyed it. Very well done!

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 18, 2015, 02:34:18 PM

now for the spoilers..... HAN FLIES THE MILLENNIUM FALCON WITH CHEWBACCA!!!!!

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on December 18, 2015, 02:52:44 PM

I'm not going to lie, I enjoyed returning to the star wars universe. That being said, if you take off the nostalgia blinders and look at the film purely on its own merits it's pretty bad. Without too many spoilers, it underwhelmed in terms of recycled plot points, the twists were predictable and often fell flat and the 30 year gap left way too many holes. Presumably some of these will be filled in during VIII, but I am worried about a few of them being left unexplained.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Drrek on December 18, 2015, 04:30:43 PM

Spoilers in my post, ye be warned.

Spoiler (hover to show)

What I Liked:

Kylo Ren - I loved having a sith figure who was inexperienced and still being tempted by the light side.  I loved that he was an immature, raw sith, and it makes his defeat by the heroes more believable.  Having the villain as a child of the original cast and not the main characters was great, and he also was great for explaining why Luke is still the only Jedi.  Hopefully the theory that Rey is Luke's kid will not be true, because that would ruin a lot of it for me.  Ren though has been one of my favorite villains in a long time.

Han - He overshadowed the new cast at times, but he and chewie were great.  Additionally, the use of 2 of the old crew with 3 of the new crew I thought worked really well.  It allowed old and new characters to shine simultaneously with a healthy balance.  And Han's death scene, while extremely telegraphed, was still well done, and the lighting as Kylo makes his decision was great.

No old planets - One of the things that I have hated about star wars stuff after the original series is that everything keeps going back to tatooine and hoth.  The universe is big, and for once they actually just had new planets.  Every time Tatooine showed up in some star wars media after the original trilogy I just kinda had to roll my eyes at it, and this movie doesn't make me do that.

The new crew - I liked all of the new characters (ok, so Rey was a little TOO good at absolutely everything).  I look forward to seeing them all more in the future movies.

What I didn't like:

Deathstar 3 - Come on, really? Rolling my eyes when writers couldn't move past the old locations of the first three movies is nothing compared to how the writers apparently just couldn't move past the deathstar.  I just can't think at all how a planet sized deathstar helped this movie at all.  And lampshading it by comparing it to the deathstar in their strategy meeting before attacking it doesn't excuse this.  Think of your own story Abrams, if I wanted to watch A New Hope (which I do), I'd just watch A New Hope.  There was no new spin on this plot, it was literally just A New Hope again.

The pacing in the middle - I can't even exactly articulate what my problem was with it here, it just felt entirely off.

Poe Randomly Appearing at the Resistance Base - I mean what?  He survived the crash but he doesn't look for BB-8 before going back to the resistance base?  He was willing to head straight back to first order occupied world to look for this droid because it was the only thing that mattered to the mission, but he just heads back to the resistance without him?  Just doesn't make sense with his actions up to that point.

The political situation - So we go from a trilogy that spends WAY to much time on politics to one that gives us no idea what the politics are like.  What is the republic's power base?  What is the first order's power base? Why are they called the resistance if the republic apparently exists again?  Why was the resistance's fleet like 12 X-wings total?  Why are we expected to care that the republic's planet is destroyed when we don't know anything about them?  Like not even a couple throwaway lines to let us know what has happened to the structure of the galaxy over 30 years? Why?

The First Order - I loved Ren as villain, but the rest of the cast around him feels so... lame.  None of the other first order characters are interesting at all, and the obvious emperor fill in better have more character than "evil" in the upcoming movies, because I was seriously underwhelmed.


In the end the movie was obviously a serious step in the right direction compared to the prequels, but that was not all I was hoping for from this.  It feels like it merely fits in the role of "fine" or "good," which is so much less than I want from star wars.  It feels too much like an attempted remake of A New Hope, when it really needed to do its own thing.  Its worth a watch, and it gives me hope for the future of Star Wars, but it also worries me.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Prof Underwood on December 20, 2015, 01:23:00 AM

Quote from: Isildur on December 18, 2015, 04:49:16 AM

leaving certain plot elements unraveled for the sake of having sequels)

Was it to the extreme that was Back to the Future 2 (which seemed like the whole thing was really just a preview to Back to the Future 3)?

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Isildur on December 20, 2015, 04:18:16 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 20, 2015, 01:23:00 AM

Quote from: Isildur on December 18, 2015, 04:49:16 AM

leaving certain plot elements unraveled for the sake of having sequels)

Was it to the extreme that was Back to the Future 2 (which seemed like the whole thing was really just a preview to Back to the Future 3)?

Not exactly like that... Back to the Future has cliff hangers in a positive way, while Star Wars leaves a lot of background information out. Drrek's spoiler post addresses what I was talking about if you want to venture in there!

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: galadgawyn on December 20, 2015, 11:07:53 PM

hands down better than the prequels!  I enjoyed it and would actually like to see it again.  There are definitely things you can nitpick but the original trilogy had stuff too, the sum total however was good.

Quote

Though the story was thoroughly and entirely predictable (from the first scenes), if you go to a Star Wars movie for details about the plot, and if you let them (or lack of) ruin the movie for you, you're missing the point. It's all about the characters- all of which were portrayed flawlessly, for my money.

I agree.  While the vagueness of the politics, galactic geography, passage of time, etc was a little annoying I still enjoyed the main characters development where it felt like most of the effort was focused in the movie.  The plot is really just a backdrop and while not great the parts that mattered were well done.  I liked the acting and thought the humor in this movie really added to it.

There were some missed opportunities that I hope the next movies can leverage.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: YourMathTeacher on December 21, 2015, 06:08:42 PM

I agree with those that felt the movie was predictable and unoriginal. I felt like I was watching a TV spinoff rather than a feature film.

I enjoyed watching it, but I wouldn't watch it again in the theater. I can wait for Blu-ray. I say that because the original Star Wars movie is one of only two movies I have ever seen more than once in the theater (Jurassic Park is the other). I saw Episode IV twelve times in the theater.  ;)

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on December 22, 2015, 06:33:29 PM

I loved it a lot! This was the first real Star Wars movie I got to see in theaters. (The only Star Wars movies I got to see were the Clone Wars movie and the Phantom Menace 3-D re-release.)

Here are my gripes about the movie though.

Spoiler (hover to show)

1. I thought Kylo Ren was sort of a meh villain. To me, he seemed like an immature Vader wannabe. Whenever something didn't go his way, he took his lightsaber and slashed it around (Knights of Ren tantrums for the win!). Also, when he took off his helmet, he didn't seem threatening. Maybe that was deliberate, but it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
2. Han Solo being killed. It was bound to happen, and when he walked out that bridge, I knew that was going to happen. But still...
3. Luke barely being in it. He was given second billing in the credits of the movie and he wasn't in the whole darned thing for five minutes.
4. Abrams borrowed a LOT from A New Hope. It wasn't as bad as when he made Star Trek Into Darkness (because it behaved like a Wrath of Khan remake), but it just sorta had me go eh.

Overall, I loved the movie and I plan on seeing again. It was great to see the old characters again and the new protagonists are awesome! I can't wait to see Episode 8. :)

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Legolas on December 22, 2015, 07:38:35 PM

I loved the movie, way better than the prequels. I loved how they portrayed light saber fights especially. Does anyone know who the older guy was that gave po the piece of the map at the beginning that ren killed?

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Drrek on December 22, 2015, 09:15:17 PM

Quote from: Lampy 2.0 on December 22, 2015, 06:33:29 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

1. I thought Kylo Ren was sort of a meh villain. To me, he seemed like an immature Vader wannabe. Whenever something didn't go his way, he took his lightsaber and slashed it around (Knights of Ren tantrums for the win!). Also, when he took off his helmet, he didn't seem threatening. Maybe that was deliberate, but it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Everything you said was literally the whole point of the character.  He's not a hardened Sith lord confused, just a manipulated kid who idolizes his grandfather.  The whole point of him removing his helmet is showing that the mask is just a front he puts forth, not who he really is.  Underneath he's just a kid who doesn't know what he's doing, and he wears the mask to hide who he really is.

Everything you said about Ren is exactly why I love him.  We've had confident, imposing Sith before.  Ren is something new, and imo the best part of the movie.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on December 23, 2015, 05:04:38 AM

I think there is more to Ren that what we see. I think he's a Jedi pretty much undercover. I like how he's immature and still learning and looks up to his grandfather, although it is assumed that he looks up to Darth Vader when in reality he trained with Luke, so he would know that Vader actually threw Palapatine off the rail and turned good. Sooooo, maybe he looks up to the Anakin Darth Vader, how he became good, and "finish" what he could not, meaning destroy The Dark Side for good. Doing whatever it takes to make Snoke trust him fully. I do wish his voice seemed a little more intimidating, and he didn't look anything like Han/Leia's son, but that's irrelevant. Some things weren't necessarily obvious, but wasn't hard to speculate.
Fin is probably Lando's son, but not sure who's parents are Rey's, I highly doubt she's a Skywalker. Personally, I loved what they did with Luke, who cares if he was second in the credits, I want his story hyped up and I have to wait to see what happened with him. I didn't like Starkiller and how it was destroyed within one movie. Not only was it not original, when they blew it up I just sat there watching being like...why even include Starkiller? C'mon JJ, think of your own ideas for once. So yes, it had a lot of similarities to A New Hope, but minor things, nothing that influence how the story will be identical. I think there is enough hidden between Rey and Luke, even Ren, that will make for a great story. Also there was no Jar Jar, or anything remotely close to him. The stormtrooper captain female also can become a Fett like character, which could be interesting, long as she's not the same character as Boba, make her original and unique.
I thought the humor was awesome, subtle and funny, not overwheming. The special effects were good and not Michael Bay'esque. The amount of characters that they had to show, develop, and intertwine all while telling the story was, in my opinion, done well. I know some of these posts are kind of ragging on details being left out, but it makes for more of an interesting story, I mean here we are talking about it. The fact that they have a 30 year gap, a good story, and connected old and new characters was impressive enough. I'm sure Luke tells us more in episode VIII as well as Ren and Snoke due to his training, and you will get to see what is going on with The Resistance.
Plenty of potential, and the story seems to be moving along in a great direction, I'm excited for the next episode, but not excited for the in between anthology movies. C'mon Disney, don't squeeze too much money out of your fans, and don't make a movie just because you have the rights, or maybe cause the contract. Hopefully the anthology will explain more, but be entertaining.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on December 23, 2015, 03:37:49 PM

Quote from: Drrek on December 22, 2015, 09:15:17 PM

Quote from: Lampy 2.0 on December 22, 2015, 06:33:29 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

1. I thought Kylo Ren was sort of a meh villain. To me, he seemed like an immature Vader wannabe. Whenever something didn't go his way, he took his lightsaber and slashed it around (Knights of Ren tantrums for the win!). Also, when he took off his helmet, he didn't seem threatening. Maybe that was deliberate, but it just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Everything you said was literally the whole point of the character.  He's not a hardened Sith lord confused, just a manipulated kid who idolizes his grandfather.  The whole point of him removing his helmet is showing that the mask is just a front he puts forth, not who he really is.  Underneath he's just a kid who doesn't know what he's doing, and he wears the mask to hide who he really is.

Everything you said about Ren is exactly why I love him.  We've had confident, imposing Sith before.  Ren is something new, and imo the best part of the movie.

Good point. I might have to go see it again to see Kylo's character again.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Prof Underwood on December 27, 2015, 10:02:49 PM

Were there some things that I was disappointed about?  Sure.
Were some things that I thought were really cool? Definitely.
Did Disney kill Star Wars, like people were scared of a while back? Surely not.
Did I leave the theater feeling excited, and did it "feel like a Star Wars movie"? Definitely so.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Biggest 3 Pros:
 - Having the original cast back.  Seeing Han, Chewy, Leia, C-3PO, R2D2, and Luke all again was really cool.  And I really felt like their characters were true to their originals in both the way they had spent the last 30 years, and also how they behaved in this movie (other than maybe R2D2 being in sleep mode for such a long time).  That's hard to pull off, and I'm super glad that they got this right.

 - The way ships are revealed.  The opening being on top of the ship that blocks out the planet was creative.  And I LOVED the way that the Falcon was revealed by being referred to as junk, and then panning there after the "good ship" gets totally blown up.  That was awesome!

 - The unanswered questions.  These really got my curiosity up and make me excited to see the next movie.  Who was the old guy at the beginning of the movie?  What happened to Kylo Ren to cause him to turn his back on his family and Jedi training to follow the dark side?  Who is Rey's family?  How did Snopes come to control the 1st Order?  Who is the leader of the Storm Troopers?  All of these questions interest me, and could lead to very good stories.

Biggest 3 Cons:
 - The bad guys were cheesier than all the previous bad guys.  Snopes (lame name) is never seen other than the HUGE holographic image, which makes me think that he's actually probably tiny IRL and is trying to compensate.  And Kylo Ren comes off as a spoiled teenager still throwing tantrums like a toddler.  He's not evil or scary or even cool.  He's just pitiful and weak.  And he gets his tail kicked in a lightsaber duel with a noob who has never even used one before.  For that matter he can't even force grab a lightsaber stronger than a noob who has never force-grabbed before.  Just pitiful.  He also should've left his helmet on until the bridge scene with dad.  There's no reason to take off your helmet during a simple interrogation of a stranger.

 - The deathstar 3.0 was lame.  The 1st death star was a really cool idea.  The 2nd one was pretty dumb really.  Making a 3rd one is just completely lazy and stupid.  I don't care if it's bigger and can blow up 5 planets at once instead of just 1.  It's still the same idea, and it shares the same fate (1 early success followed by getting blown up due to a single X-wing).  They really should have had some sort of new super bad tech like biological warfare, or something that stops fusion in a star (to kill the planets in that system), or something that does mind-control, or really anything else besides another death star.

- Han's death.  This was too telegraphed, which spoiled what could've been a very poignant moment.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 28, 2015, 09:16:44 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

My biggest problem was how forced it was with the girl learing how to use the Force. it felt like they just needed a new person that could use the force so they made her learn everything really fast. just seemed like they were trying to shove it in there so a new person could do it besides Ren.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: jbeers285 on December 28, 2015, 02:26:46 PM

Is it possible that she had training from Luke before he disappeared. She would've been very little and could have only subconscious memories but that training could be showing up now.

I mean how else can she climb 200 yards of rope while junking, defeat multiple people with only a stick and out run many others?

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: TheHobbit13 on December 28, 2015, 03:05:11 PM

It was soooo disappointing.... I thought it was an terrible movie. I had just watched the old ones and was pumped to see everything in better animation.  I bet Disney cut corners on the plot because they knew people would still see it regardless. Fool me once  ;)

Spoiler (hover to show)

I will take the time because I feel like venting will give me some peace  :angel:  ;)


Pros:

 Love <3 <3 <3 the Villain. Love his voice, I listen to it every night before bedtime. Love the costume ooooh yeah. Love his face... He's American but I love his Turkish and/or Spanish features. Being Han Solo's son only iced the Kylo Cake for me.

CGI or whatever they use now was mind blowing. Saved the movie if that's even possible. I love the new storm troopers.

Loved the old cast. WOW father time is crueler than I thought but they still got it ;) Chewy was down very well and Han using his cross bow was a great touch!

Cons:
Why is Chewy dating an oompa loompa? Ooompa Looompa dubitty dee why did cheeewwy fall for me?? Honestly I don't like the looks of this.

For me I was expecting either a good land battle a good space battle or a good plot. A combination of those would have been great but imo we didn't get any of those things.
Plot:
Death Star Planet LOL Essentially the same situation as original 3 LOL

Shallow love relationship between Finn and Rey. I couldn't really tell until the end if she liked him or not and then I'm still not sure if she friend-zoned him. The interracial aspect is not complementary to the time restraints they were working under.

I don't like Rey's character very much. The English accent was a major disappointment because it felt like I was watching pirates of the Caribbean not star wars. I wanted to be in the star wars universe where the only accents are alien and midwestern.  ;) Seriously I did not feel like I was in the star wars universe. The smugglers who cornered han in the beginning only compounded the issue. The makers of the first six were very creative and that could be seen through the numerous alien races and complex political atmosphere that helped shape the star wars universe. They used some different races in the bar seen but nothing in comparison to the original and the politics seemed simple: bigger bad guy tell little bad guy what to do.


Back to Rey's character. It's understandable to me that she didn't at first know what she was doing; however, I feel like an accelerated knowledge of the force would have been more exciting.
I didn't like her accent really, imo it didn't fit the star wars universe. To be fair English people who watched the original star wars probably felt the same way about the way Han, Luke, Vader,...etc spoke but Disney is an American company so  a mid-western type accent seems reasonable.

Finn. WOW.... I like his character in the beginning but then I lost almost all faith in him when he lied to the rebel leaders and  "winged" the mission to destroy the shields on the death star.  Really??? If you go that route you have to introduce some sort of luck factor and boy did they get lucky. They just talked some Captain into lowering the shields... and that was it. I hope Rey friend-zones him for that... The writers played it out like some sick joke but this is Star Wars. The Galaxy is at stake. It's not pirates of the Caribbean were the more Jack sparrow procrastinates and improvises the funnier. I'm glad they put him in a coma at the end because it put me in a forgiving mood and now I (more or less) sympathize with him.

And aren't storm troopers clones of Jango Fett? They explained how he got there but I should think they still have some clones left. Maybe my ignorance of Star Wars lore is worse than I thought but it was hard for me to get past it.

Space battle:

Ok, but animation aside I have seen better in the prequels.

Land battle:
 non-existent, it wasn't there! That's okay they are just warming up the series. But by the time this is over I am hoping for an awesome land battle.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: TheHobbit13 on December 28, 2015, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: Drrek on December 18, 2015, 04:30:43 PM

Quote from: Drrek on December 18, 2015, 04:30:43 PM

Spoilers in my post, ye be warned.

Spoiler (hover to show)

What I Liked:

Kylo Ren - I loved having a sith figure who was inexperienced and still being tempted by the light side.  I loved that he was an immature, raw sith, and it makes his defeat by the heroes more believable.  Having the villain as a child of the original cast and not the main characters was great, and he also was great for explaining why Luke is still the only Jedi.  Hopefully the theory that Rey is Luke's kid will not be true, because that would ruin a lot of it for me.  Ren though has been one of my favorite villains in a long time.
Yeah he was awesome!!! The only thing I didn't like about him was that his light saber was shaped like a broad sword. I mean come on are we in the Star Wars Universe or not lol?
Han - He overshadowed the new cast at times, but he and chewie were great.  Additionally, the use of 2 of the old crew with 3 of the new crew I thought worked really well.  It allowed old and new characters to shine simultaneously with a healthy balance.  And Han's death scene, while extremely telegraphed, was still well done, and the lighting as Kylo makes his decision was great.
Han was Great! I didn't like the part were they shot Chewy so rea good show her piloting skills. Come on I want Han and Chewy flying around like the glory days. Instead we have Indiana Jones flying around with Keira Knightley's sister-in law-lol wut?

What I didn't like:

Deathstar 3 - Come on, really? Rolling my eyes when writers couldn't move past the old locations of the first three movies is nothing compared to how the writers apparently just couldn't move past the deathstar.  I just can't think at all how a planet sized deathstar helped this movie at all.  And lampshading it by comparing it to the deathstar in their strategy meeting before attacking it doesn't excuse this.  Think of your own story Abrams, if I wanted to watch A New Hope (which I do), I'd just watch A New Hope.  There was no new spin on this plot, it was literally just A New Hope again.
ikr!? lazy writing if you ask me.



The political situation - So we go from a trilogy that spends WAY to much time on politics to one that gives us no idea what the politics are like.  What is the republic's power base?  What is the first order's power base? Why are they called the resistance if the republic apparently exists again?  Why was the resistance's fleet like 12 X-wings total?  Why are we expected to care that the republic's planet is destroyed when we don't know anything about them?  Like not even a couple throwaway lines to let us know what has happened to the structure of the galaxy over 30 years? Why?

In my mind I lump this in to the lack planet death star idea. We are back in the same situation really?? If anything they should be hunting sith or something. This was the biggest let down for me I was hoping for something else besides a rebellion against the dark side

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: wyatt_marcum on December 28, 2015, 08:54:37 PM

Quote from: jbeers285 on December 28, 2015, 02:26:46 PM

Is it possible that she had training from Luke before he disappeared. She would've been very little and could have only subconscious memories but that training could be showing up now.

I mean how else can she climb 200 yards of rope while junking, defeat multiple people with only a stick and out run many others?

I'm not really sure about that. she was old enough to remember that she was dropped off on the planet and told to wait, so I'm sure she would have remembered any training she had up to that point.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Gabe on December 28, 2015, 11:16:29 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

If they are simply retelling in the story of A New Hope then Rae is really just Ben Solo's twin sister. They won't reveal that until the third new movie though.  ;)

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: RedemptionAggie on December 28, 2015, 11:29:55 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Strictly speaking, shouldn't retelling ANH mean Kylo Ren is Rey's father, and Finn is her twin brother?  :P

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: kariusvega on December 29, 2015, 06:52:57 PM

Quote from: Drrek on December 18, 2015, 04:30:43 PM

Spoilers in my post, ye be warned.

Spoiler (hover to show)

What I Liked:

Deathstar 3 - Come on, really? Rolling my eyes when writers couldn't move past the old locations of the first three movies is nothing compared to how the writers apparently just couldn't move past the deathstar.  I just can't think at all how a planet sized deathstar helped this movie at all.  And lampshading it by comparing it to the deathstar in their strategy meeting before attacking it doesn't excuse this.  Think of your own story Abrams, if I wanted to watch A New Hope (which I do), I'd just watch A New Hope.  There was no new spin on this plot, it was literally just A New Hope again.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Yuuzhan Vong, the twist is universal.

Title: Re: Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens
Post by: Drrek on December 29, 2015, 08:10:59 PM

Quote from: kariusvega on December 29, 2015, 06:52:57 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Yuuzhan Vong, the twist is universal.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Goodness I hope not. The writers need to think of something original.