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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Entertainment => Topic started by: Bobbert on November 23, 2013, 08:12:56 AM

Title: 50 years
Post by: Bobbert on November 23, 2013, 08:12:56 AM

Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to Who,
Happy birthday to you!

So who all is watching the special today?

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on November 23, 2013, 11:32:59 AM

ME! YouTube is live streaming it today when it comes on, so I'll watch it that way!

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 23, 2013, 12:28:14 PM

I would watch it if I could.  But unfortunately I think the YouTube stream is only for the "preshow".

If someone finds a way to actually watch the thing legally online (for those of us who don't get BBC:America), then by all means, please post it here :)

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: YourMathTeacher on November 23, 2013, 03:50:37 PM

For those of us not in "the know" I was finding it hard to believe that you were celebrating the assassination of JFK. I now see the subtle "Who" in there. I guess that would explain why the special is not being aired on normal American TV, with the coincidental anniversary date.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Bobbert on November 23, 2013, 05:55:03 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on November 23, 2013, 12:28:14 PM

I would watch it if I could.  But unfortunately I think the YouTube stream is only for the "preshow".

If someone finds a way to actually watch the thing legally online (for those of us who don't get BBC:America), then by all means, please post it here :)

This showed up on my FB feed, you may want to check it out. http://www.combom.co.uk/2013/11/how-to-watch-day-of-doctor-live-and.html (http://www.combom.co.uk/2013/11/how-to-watch-day-of-doctor-live-and.html)

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 23, 2013, 03:50:37 PM

For those of us not in "the know" I was finding it hard to believe that you were celebrating the assassination of JFK. I now see the subtle "Who" in there. I guess that would explain why the special is not being aired on normal American TV, with the coincidental anniversary date.

Yeah, that was speed bump for the original show too :P

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on November 23, 2013, 09:16:22 PM

My opinion on the episode:

The episode was FANTASTIC! I thought it was really great! Two things that made me happy:

Spoiler (hover to show)

The fact that the time lords are still alive!

Spoiler (hover to show)

And the cameos of Doctors 4 and 12!

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Bobbert on November 24, 2013, 01:09:15 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm not sure how I feel about the reversal of Gallifrey's fate. On one hand, WOOHOO WE CAN GO BACK TO GALLIFREY but on the other, the Doctor himself said that the depths to which the Time Lords had fallen were terrible to the point of bringing him to double genocide. Even if he does follow Tom Baker's (w0ot) kinda-sorta "advice", there could be dire consequences to unlocking Gallifrey.
I was a fan of the episode, though I think that it was hyped to be more than it possible could have been. Lots of Fridge Brilliance.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 24, 2013, 02:12:48 PM

I loved the episode.

Spoiler (hover to show)

The combination of doctors was really fun to watch.  I especially liked the characterization of their 3 incarnations as "the Warrior", "the Hero", and "the Doctor".  It really gave new perspective on how the Doctor's character has grown through the centuries to pass through those different phases, and how that growth explains some of the personality differences as well as similarities.

I also really enjoyed the moral dilemmas throughout the episode:  QE1st impersonating her enemies to save her kingdom.  Kate Steward deciding whether to nuke London to save the world.  The Doctor deciding whether to commit double genocide to save the galaxy.

I also thought that the episode did a great job of capturing the whole time travel component of Doctor Who.  Not only did we have 3 storylines happening in 3 different times (ancient past Gallifry, past London, and near-future London), but we also had some great uses of that great span of time to solve problems (sonic screwdrivers disassembling castle doors, and TARDISes being able to freeze all of Gallifry in a pocket painting universe).

Lastly, I thought there was a good amount of humor and seriousness all mixed together, just like Doctor Who always does when its at its best.  And the ending of the episode pointed toward a hopeful (even if uncertain) future which is also my favorite way for a show to end up.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 24, 2013, 02:34:41 PM

Great episode.

Spoiler (hover to show)

I wish they didn't have to resort to "This is what actually happened but everyone forgot," but it does tie things together nicely.

Also, the best line of the episode goes to either:

War Doctor: Are you capable of speaking without flapping your hands about?
Eleventh Doctor: (gesturing emphatically) Yes! No...

or...

Eleventh Doctor: It's a timey-wimey thing.
War Doctor: Timey what? Timey-wimey?
Tenth Doctor: I've no idea where he picks that stuff up.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Warrior_Monk on November 25, 2013, 05:32:49 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Great episode. Doctor Who has felt kind of stale for a long time and this really did the trick at making me love the show again.

However, I'm not sure I liked it when I compare the past few years of history.  How does The End of Time play into this? They depicted the Time Lords as the victims, which isn't really true. Some of them were, sure, but you're freezing the good along with the bad. Also, wasn't this one of the fixed points in history that couldn't be changed? I feel like that was mentioned somewhere in the line, but I have no idea where (time to rewatch the series, I guess).

The Daleks completely destroyed each other in the crossfire? Seems kinda fishy to me. I mean, a lot of them would die, but they were invading Gallifrey too. They were all over the place. Surely some of them would live. And by some, I mean a lot.

I also agree with Lambo that them forgetting everything seemed dumb, but I guess I'll live with it. I kind of wish that the Bad Wolf thing had simply shown a vision of what the future would be, and then The Warrior regenerated into Peter Capaldi, making Tennant and Smith (and Ecclestan, but he's less important) only exist in a parallel universe where Gallifrey is destroyed. They could still freeze the universe without those 2, as they would still many doctors. We would then resume the timeline under Capaldi, the 9th (ish) Doctor.

I really need to watch the series again.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 25, 2013, 06:50:52 AM

Good thoughts there Westy.  I'll share a few of my thoughts along those lines:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: Westy on November 25, 2013, 05:32:49 AM

wasn't this one of the fixed points in history that couldn't be changed?

They mentioned that within this episode actually.  Their explanation was that it was the "Moment" itself which made it possible to break into a "fixed point".

Quote from: Westy on November 25, 2013, 05:32:49 AM

The Daleks completely destroyed each other in the crossfire?

Looked at another way, you have have spaceships completely surrounding a sphere firing weapons that are strong enough to destroy a planet.  I'm sure those weapons would then be way more powerful than would be needed to punch a hole in a spaceship on the other side of the planet if it disappeared all of a sudden.  So the entire fleet being wiped out makes sense.  However, you are correct that there would still be a few Daleks who survive on the planet (also frozen in the painting) as well as probably many Daleks who stayed home during the war and weren't sent in the invasion forces.  However none of this is really any different, since some Daleks survived the "total destruction" the last time around as well, right?

Quote from: Westy on November 25, 2013, 05:32:49 AM

I kind of wish that the Bad Wolf thing had simply shown a vision of what the future would be, and then The Warrior regenerated into Peter Capaldi, making Tennant and Smith (and Ecclestan, but he's less important) only exist in a parallel universe where Gallifrey is destroyed. They could still freeze the universe without those 2, as they would still many doctors. We would then resume the timeline under Capaldi, the 9th (ish) Doctor.

I think this is basically what happened.  This episode draws to a close the timeline based on the Warrior deciding to end the Time War by killing everyone.  It also creates a new timeline (which will be the series going forward) where the Time War ended by the Daleks killing themselves and Gallifry disappearing.  This is the timeline of Capaldi.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Warrior_Monk on November 25, 2013, 08:55:27 AM

I'm not going to cut up your post in quotes because lazy.

Spoiler (hover to show)

I must have missed that mention. I was at work while watching though...
I don't like that explanation though. I'm rewatching the episode now and will evaluate that further later.

Wasn't there only the one who survived and then it bred the others? Again, I need to rewatch the series, I'm really rusty on all of this. The Daleks have "completely" died a hundred times over, but I really don't see how one battle could possibly constitute all of them.

That explanation doesn't totally make sense though. How could the Moment pry from The Warrior's future timeline if it's a different timeline than the one he takes? They're obviously in the same universe. Furthermore, I thought it was already stated that Matt Smith will die in the Christmas Special, and regenerate into Capaldi, but I suppose it could be an implied red herring.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 09:29:00 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: Westy on November 25, 2013, 05:32:49 AM

Also, wasn't this one of the fixed points in history that couldn't be changed? I feel like that was mentioned somewhere in the line, but I have no idea where (time to rewatch the series, I guess).

Here's my interpretation, and yes I am still using the old numbering for doctors:

The doctor never used the moment in the first place. This episode never actually changed anything, rather it explained what really happened. Gallifrey was locked in stasis in a pocket universe, the daleks destroyed each other in the crossfire, so from everyone else's point of view, it looked as though the Doctor used the moment.

The war doctor was about to press the button when the other two doctors showed up, found another way around, then the war doctor regenerated into Nine immediately after. Since Eleven is the only doctor to remember this series of events, The last thing Nine remembers is when he was just about to activate the moment and burn Gallifrey, causing him a ton of guilt that lasted until Eleven saw this happen.

So, all of this happened in the first place, but the war doctor and ten never remembered it, and everyone else simply thought the moment was used due to the results.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 25, 2013, 09:43:39 AM

Response to Westy:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: Westy on November 25, 2013, 08:55:27 AM

Furthermore, I thought it was already stated that Matt Smith will die in the Christmas Special, and regenerate into Capaldi, but I suppose it could be an implied red herring.

Actually what I read today is that Matt Smith is actually the 13th Doctor.  So perhaps John Hurt DID regenerate into Capaldi.  Or perhaps Moffat is doing something to totally change the whole limitation of 12 regenerations.

Response to Lambo:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 09:29:00 AM

The war doctor was about to press the button when the other two doctors showed up, found another way around, then the war doctor regenerated into Nine immediately after. Since Eleven is the only doctor to remember this series of events

This is a good theory, but if they all showed up, and all discussed the new and improved solution, then why would only "Eleven" (really 13) remember the outcome?

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 09:57:13 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote

Actually what I read today is that Matt Smith is actually the 13th Doctor.  So perhaps John Hurt DID regenerate into Capaldi.  Or perhaps Moffat is doing something to totally change the whole limitation of 12 regenerations.

Numbers here are counting regenerations:

William Hartnell --1-- Patrick Troughton --2-- Jon Pertwee --3 --Tom Baker -- 4 -- Peter Davison --5-- Colin Baker --6-- Sylvester McCoy --7-- Paul McGann --8-- John Hurt --9-- Christopher Eccleston --10-- David Tennant --11-- Matt Smith --12-- Peter Capaldi

So, the 12 regeneration limit has not been broken yet. If Capaldi regenerates, THEN they will have to explain it.

Also, Smith is the 11th doctor (Since Hurt's did away with the title to become a warrior) and 12th incarnation.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 25, 2013, 10:36:46 AM

Response to Lambo:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 09:57:13 AM

Numbers here are counting regenerations:

William Hartnell --1-- Patrick Troughton --2-- Jon Pertwee --3 --Tom Baker -- 4 -- Peter Davison --5-- Colin Baker --6-- Sylvester McCoy --7-- Paul McGann --8-- John Hurt --9-- Christopher Eccleston --10-- David Tennant --11-- Matt Smith --12-- Peter Capaldi

According to Moffat, (http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-11-25/steven-moffat-is-rewriting-doctor-who-folklore-to-produce-a-christmas-cracker) Tennant used up an extra regeneration, so we therefore are already out.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Professoralstad on November 25, 2013, 10:53:19 AM

I feel like at some point along a thread spoilers should be unnecessary. If anyone is really upset that someone spoiled something, they should understand by this point in the thread that it's their own fault.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 11:05:52 AM

Quote from: Professoralstad on November 25, 2013, 10:53:19 AM

I feel like at some point along a thread spoilers should be unnecessary. If anyone is really upset that someone spoiled something, they should understand by this point in the thread that it's their own fault.

Agreed

---

HENCEFORTH I DECREE, SPOILERS APLENTY BEYOND THIS POINT
TURN BACK NOW IF YOU WISH NOT TO GAZE UPON THEM

---

Now we can discuss without spoiler tags.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 11:12:57 AM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on November 25, 2013, 10:36:46 AM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 25, 2013, 09:57:13 AM

Numbers here are counting regenerations:

William Hartnell --1-- Patrick Troughton --2-- Jon Pertwee --3 --Tom Baker -- 4 -- Peter Davison --5-- Colin Baker --6-- Sylvester McCoy --7-- Paul McGann --8-- John Hurt --9-- Christopher Eccleston --10-- David Tennant --11-- Matt Smith --12-- Peter Capaldi

According to Moffat, (http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-11-25/steven-moffat-is-rewriting-doctor-who-folklore-to-produce-a-christmas-cracker) Tennant used up an extra regeneration, so we therefore are already out.

Interesting. I suppose we'll have to wait until Christmas for all of this to really be sorted out.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on November 25, 2013, 03:22:15 PM

I thought he had 13 regens?

Also did anyone else love that this was hinted at when they brought back galafrey with the master?

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on November 25, 2013, 04:21:28 PM

Is the Valeyard coming back? I just read on Wikipedia a recent episode referred to him. He's supposed to be between the 12th and 13th reincarnation.

Disclaimer: The most recent episode I've watched is the wedding of river song.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Warrior_Monk on November 25, 2013, 08:00:30 PM

Just watch the episode, Sauce, you honestly haven't missed anything else that's too important.

The whole forgetting it thing really didn't make sense. Their time lines were out of sync? Why should that effect anything?

Additionally, I'm not sure I like a Doctor that doesn't have a dark past. It thickened the character. Gave him purpose.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: browarod on November 25, 2013, 08:19:11 PM

Quote from: Westy on November 25, 2013, 08:00:30 PM

Additionally, I'm not sure I like a Doctor that doesn't have a dark past. It thickened the character. Gave him purpose.

It also makes the decisions he makes in episodes like The Waters of Mars make more sense. :P

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Soundman2 on December 03, 2013, 11:52:03 PM

This one was so epic I got it on blu-ray.

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: wmd1999 on December 04, 2013, 09:20:04 PM

Can someone please find me a link to watch this! I was hunting that weekend and i never got to see it

Title: Re: 50 years
Post by: Soundman2 on December 04, 2013, 11:03:54 PM

Its at best buy now every where else on the 10th.