Author Topic: Zebulun Offense: 6 Cards? (Read 20545 times)

DaClock · « **on:** January 26, 2009, 01:42:29 AM »

How big does a Zebulun based offense need to be in order to be successful?

I think you could use Zebulun, Benjamin, I Am Redemption, Chariot of Fire, Solomon's Temple and Lampstand of the Sanctuary. If you add in Son of God, New Jerusalem and Guardian of your Souls and Destruction of Nehushtan you have 10 cards. That means outside of your 7 lost souls you could add 33 cards to a 50 card deck.

Is this viable? I know people have used Zebulun offenses in the past but I'm not sure how big they were. Pharaoh's Throne Room and the OT Ignore LS are the only cards I would worry about using the said offense.

The defense would obviously need to be something with few enhancements.

The Guardian · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2009, 02:00:27 AM »

You would definitely want some heavy banding in your defense so you could use Besieged as a way to get rid of PTR. Would David's Harp be better than Chariot, you think?

DaClock · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:04:43 AM »

I think Chariot is better since if they wait until he's in territory and play CM you can't get him back with David's Harp. I like the idea of Besieged on defense, but using Set Fire or Spreading Mildew would work as well right?

SirNobody · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:14:32 AM »

Hey,

Golden Calf and Confusion of Mind present a problem. I'm going to guess the plan is to use Destruction on one and assume you don't play against any decks that use both. With Destruction committed to Confusion of Mind, Holy Grail becomes a potential problem. You could use an entirely genesis defense or go with a racial defense whose fortress protects from conversion, or you could depend on your ability to suicide kill whatever character got converted (although if you go with the besieged idea converting one of your banding characters and then activating HHI would put you out of luck).

And you might think of adding Wall of Protection because if your opponent can band to your Zebulun...HHI also works well to keep opponents from banding to your characters (and is a defensive card so it might be the better option, of course it can be DoNed while Wall of Protection can't).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

DaClock · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:24:33 AM »

Hmm, I hadn't thought about Confusion of Mind. Maybe including an extra good dominant (AOTL?) would be worth it just in case. Lost Soul special abilities could present a problem so I would probably need to use The Amalekites Slave, Malchus and Hopper LS just to make sure I can rescue enough LS.

Holy Grail does present an interesting problem. I could conceivably use a demon-only defense, or make sure my humans are suicide based (Uzzah, Zimri, Nadab/Abihu).

An entirely Genesis defense is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how viable that would be. A deck like this would need a rock-solid defense so that end-game I could go no-hand 3 turns in a row for the win.

SirNobody · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2009, 03:37:21 AM »

Hey,

Oh, and sites would be an issue for you too.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2009, 10:53:47 AM »

Journey to Egypt.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2009, 11:20:21 AM »

Priestly Crown could be helpful for access. The Demon defense would be a cool idea, as you would have minimal Offense and Art support, so most of what you potentially could end up drawing from top and placing/drawing from bottom would be defense, but are there 33 cards to place in a Demon defense and make it viable?

Godspeed,
Mike

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2009, 11:35:02 AM »

That is why Lampstand is there.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2009, 11:47:38 AM »

I have a deck like this in RTS. The offense takes a few more cards than initially expected, and the deck isn't really very fun to play with or against. You just sit there for almost the whole game. Of course you can't attack until the end, but most turns you don't even defend because your defense is awesome enough that your opponent is too scared to attack.

As for cards that I have found to be neccessary:
Zebulun (for winning)
Chariot of Fire (for after CM)
Lampstand of the Sanctuary (for keeping CoF from getting DoN'd)
Temple (any of the 3) (for holding LotS)
DoN (for killing arts - CoM, HG, G-Cow, UW)
Captured Ark (for killing arts - CoM, HG, G-Cow, UW)
another blue GC to bring Zeb back with CoF (I like Ahimaaz since he can retreat)
SoG (for taking the anti-ignore LS)
NJ (for taking the color guard out of your purple site when you need it for access)
Wall of Protection (to keep my opponent from banding to Zeb)
CM (to kill my EC that my opponent converts and who isn't Genesis)
Kerith Revine (to protect Ahimaaz at the beginning and hold a non-Genesis converted EC at the end)
Dragon Raid (for site access)
a purple site (for ColorGuard protection at beginning and access to Pergamum at the end)
AotL to kill a small EC so that you can keep 1 or 2 cards in your hand to defend with at the end
Storehouse to keep all your enhs until you need them

This makes a total of 16 cards for your offense. That's not much smaller than any other standard offense. The only advantage is that it is almost completely unbeatable. But the disadvantage is that you have to trust that your defense will completely shut your opponent down.

The two defenses that I think work best with this would be a a site lock-out or capture-based. With the sites you don't have to have any cards to defend at the end because your opponent can't get to the LSs anyway. With the capture based defense, you don't have to have cards in your hand because you can use Shadow to play your captures from Storehouse, and with Raider's Camp you only have to defend every other turn anyway.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2009, 12:11:43 PM »

Providing Angel
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 3 / 5 • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may take a healing enhancement from draw pile or discard pile and put it in hand. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Angel • Verse: I Kings 19:5 •

Zebulun
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Draw a card. If all of your Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Zebulun ignores Evil Characters with toughness greater than the number of cards in your hand. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch, son of Jacob • Verse: Genesis 49:13

Unfortunately, Providing Angel will shutdown Zebs ability to ignore ECs and gives you another Hero to get rid of. The idea is to keep the offense as small as possible.

Ahimaaz can start an RA to use CoF to get Zeb back and then retreat.
Ahimaaz
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 4 / 2 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Holder may look at one opponent's hand or cards face down in a Site. Hero may then withdraw from battle unharmed or continue the battle. Ahimaaz cannot be captured. • Play As: Protect this Hero from capture. You may look at one opponent's hand or cards face down in a Site. You may then withdraw Hero from battle unharmed. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Tabernacle Priest (House of Eleazar), Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: II Samuel 15:36

There would be a couple ways to get rid of Ahimaaz once his usefulness is complete, so Zeb can ignore his way to victory.

Godspeed,
Mike

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2009, 12:19:22 PM »

You could always put P Angel in K Ravine, but I agree. He isn't needed.

I also think I an Healing would be helpful.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2009, 12:39:11 PM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 26, 2009, 12:19:22 PM

You could always put P Angel in K Ravine, but I agree. He isn't needed.

I also think I an Healing would be helpful.

If you use Providing Angel then you are adding more to your offense, as you would be adding healing enhs for him to retrieve. In this offense, the object is to capitalize on the less is more concept.

Godspeed,
Mike

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:09:47 PM »

Austin, READ THE POSTS!

Quote

Unfortunately, Providing Angel will shutdown Zebs ability to ignore ECs and gives you another Hero to get rid of. The idea is to keep the offense as small as possible.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:17:12 PM »

why do you need them with CoF protected by LotS?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #15 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:21:06 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 26, 2009, 01:19:32 PM

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 26, 2009, 01:17:12 PM
why do you need them with CoF protected by LotS?

for two reasons

1. you never no when CoF is going to get DoN-ed

2. with doing this you can make your chances even higher of winning

and what is LotS

LoTS is Lampstand of the Sanctuary. It protects all cards outside of battle from Evil Dominants, aka DON and Burial

sk · « **Reply #16 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:22:08 PM »

1. LotS (Lampstand of the Sanctuary) protects CoF from DoN.
2. What happens if your healing enhancements are removed from the game (ie, Forgotten History, or the starter deck multi enhancements)?
3. More cards for offense = fewer evil cards and/or slower to draw them.

Red · « **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:30:12 PM »

wich means you need to learn the idea muic dude!

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:30:39 PM »

But you DON'T NEED THEM! sk just outlined it for you.

sk · « **Reply #19 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:38:24 PM »

Artifacts are outside of battle.

Red · « **Reply #20 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:46:57 PM »

arts arwe not in battle get in your thick skull

sk · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:50:01 PM »

Hey, hey, no need to start being rude.

@ the musicain: Are you saying that David's Harp affects heroes in battle? That doesn't matter for LotS.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:52:11 PM »

ok...

BOTH CoF and David's Harp are artifacts which are outside of battle. Lampstand protects them from DoN. End of story.

It doesn't matter what the artifacts do, Lampstand protects them

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:53:18 PM »

so what are you saying then?

DaClock · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2009, 01:55:49 PM »

Musician, here's what I think you are missing.

Lampstand of the Sanctuary protects cards not in battle from evil dominants. That means if it is active simultaneously with Chariot of Fire then you never have to worry about CoF being DoN'd. Yes, they can play CM on Zebulun in battle, but he will then just get shuffled into your "deck" which probably has 0 other cards in it at that point.

News:

Author Topic: Zebulun Offense: 6 Cards? (Read 20545 times)

Rawrlolsauce!