Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Deck Concepts => Topic started by: Professoralstad on January 04, 2010, 03:50:16 PM
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Hello everyone--
Welcome to ROUT, the Random Online Unofficial Tournament. I am your host, Professoralstad. If you would like to participate in the ROUT, please read the following:
WHAT YOU NEED:
1. A method for RANDOMLY generating a deck. This post http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=19018.0 (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=19018.0) has a few ideas of approved methods. If you have another method, please let me know so I can approve it before allowing entracnce of your deck. Any method that is truly random will be allowed.
2. RTS--this may be loosened to include just AIM if enough players who can't use RTS want to join, and the other players don't mind AIM games. I would appreciate any thoughts and comments, but for now, RTS is a requirement.
3. A decklist of ONE randomly generated deck you will use in the tournament, and the method you used to generate it. I will preview all of the decks before the tournament, and if I find one that looks to good to be true, I may need to discuss my concerns with you, and you'll have to convince me it's authentic. You can PM me the list, or email it to: jsalstad@gmail.com
4. Time to play games with people online. If you are always busy with school or work, and have limited time to play Redemption, it will be hard to coordinate games with others. And that would be sad.
5. A good sport attitude.
Here's how it will work:
Once I have the names of all of the entrants, I will determine the necessary number of rounds. Each round will last no more than one week from the time it is set up (a few exceptions may be possible). The tournament will be a swiss style T1 tournament (like official Redemption tournaments) round robin style tournament with 3 pts for a win, 1.5 pts for a tie, and 0 for a loss. Byes will be 3 pts with 0 LS differential. Forfeits will result in -3 LS differential for the forfeiter, and 3 pts and +3 differential for the opponent
Everyone will play everyone once, and game points, then head-to-head matchups, then LS differential will determine the winner (i.e. if A, B and C all have 9 points at the end, and A beat B, B beat C, C beat A, then LS diff is necessary--I don't foresee that happening though...)
Games played to this point will count.
There will be no time limits for the games (since online games are generally longer) but if it comes down to neither player being able to get 5, then the person with the most LS's will get 2 pts, and the opponent 1 pt.
At the end of the tourney, the 1st place winner will receive a randomly selected UR, Promo, or TxP from my collection (except Faithful Servant and Grapes of Wrath, which are not in my collection). The 2nd place winner will receive a randomly selected rare, FooF or RoA card, and the 3rd place winner will receive a randomly selected un/common (besides Haman's Plot). 4th place will receive a randomly selected phrase meaning approximately "Honorable mention". Random selection of prizes will occur using Cameron's method in the linked post above, where the program will be repeated until the necessary rarity is chosen.
If you have any questions or comments, feel free to post, PM, or email them to me. All entrants must send me a deck list and their desire to enter by 12:00 AM CST, Saturday, January 9, 2010. Rule changes are possible, but will be well announced.
Now get out there and have some randomly generated fun!
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ROUND ROBIN TOURNAMENT:
Games Completed:
sk vs. Crashfach--sk wins 5-4
RDT vs. STAMP--RDT wins 5-1
sk vs. RDT--RDT wins 5-4
RDT vs. Crashfach--Crashfach wins 5-2
STAMP vs. Crashfach--Crashfach wins 5-3
sk vs. STAMP--sk wins 5-3
Final Rankings
Name Pts LSDif
1. Crashfach2002 6 + 4
2. Red Dragon Thorn 6 + 2
3. sk 6 + 2
4. STAMP 0 - 8
Since there was a point-wise three way tie for first, I went to head-to-head matches. And since RDT beat sk, sk beat Crash, and Crash beat RDT, I had to go to LSDif. Thus, the above is the final rankings. I will determine your randomly generated prizes tomorrow. Thanks everyone for playing! Not sure if I'd do something like this again, but I hope you all had fun!
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Question, and I hate to ask it but, does this require an ability to use RTS?
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can i play via chess chat?cuz that's like my only way to play?
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Question, and I hate to ask it but, does this require an ability to use RTS?
can i play via chess chat?cuz that's like my only way to play?
For now, RTS is a requirement, but like I said in my original post, that may be loosened to include AIM, depending on what other players think. RED, I don't think chess chat will be allowed, as I imagine most people would not enjoy that particular form of playing games. However, if the other players in the tournament say it's okay, then I will probably allow it.
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wellm i can't play then.
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Yeah, sorry about that. If you would like, you can send me a decklist, and I can confer with the other players if that is acceptable to play that way, and perhaps you can join. But I want to avoid forcing anyone to play in a way that is so cumbersome, as Chess chat would be.
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I understand if RTS/Hamachi is the req, which is personally reasonable, I just can't get my hamachi to work so I didn't wanna make a random deck and not be able to participate.
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I'm in!
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I'm so in, I predict the likely hood of rescuing Demons to be mildly higher in this than normal play ;)
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I'm in as well.
I'm not completely sure how Hamachi works, but I don't think both need to have Hamachi, just the host. I think that one could just have their opponent PM the Hamachi IP to them, but I'm not completely sure.
And if it's just the small decks, I'm ok with Hamachi.
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I'm so in, I predict the likely hood of rescuing Demons to be mildly higher in this than normal play ;)
Maybe. But I have a surefire way to create the ultimate random deck. I'm going to ask each of Tiger Woods' girlfriends to think of a number between 10 and 2190. ;)
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I'm so in, I predict the likely hood of rescuing Demons to be mildly higher in this than normal play ;)
Maybe. But I have a surefire way to create the ultimate random deck. I'm going to ask each of Tiger Woods' girlfriends to think of a number between 10 and 2190. ;)
Well, if you do that, let me know what you come up with. Also, I'm sure there are several tabloid editors who would love to see a list of 50+ of Tiger's girlfriends...
For the rest of you, I will enter your names as I receive your decklists. RR, Hamachi isn't necessary for RTS, all you need to do is have the host PM or AIM you their IP to connect to them. So Hamachi isn't a requirement, just RTS and a way send your IP.
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I'm behind a router, which to my knowledge, doesn't let me connect nor host, If I'm wrong please show me where, I hate AIM games.
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What you need to do is forward the RTS port through your router so it won't matter. If you can tell me what router you are behind and what version of Windows you are using, I think I could help you get it set up.
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www.portforward.com (http://www.portforward.com)
i forward my ports so i have the best possible connection on my 360.
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I'm so in, I predict the likely hood of rescuing Demons to be mildly higher in this than normal play ;)
Maybe. But I have a surefire way to create the ultimate random deck. I'm going to ask each of Tiger Woods' girlfriends to think of a number between 10 and 2190. ;)
Wow!! ha ha...Wow!!
For the rest of you, I will enter your names as I receive your decklists
So I’m assuming with this that means that we will play with the same deck all month and then perhaps switch to a new one the next month?
Also, I’m in! Perhaps I will be able to win THIS tournament!
And this is my decklist! Looks kinda okay. Some enhancements for each of my characters
Cards in deck: 56
Lost Souls: 7
Lost Soul
Lost Soul
Lost Soul
Lost Soul
Lost Soul
Lost Soul (Anti Angel)
Lost Soul (human)
Fortresses: 3
Demonic Stronghold
Kingdoms of the World
The Trap of the Devil
White Sites: 1
Herod's Dungeon
Red Sites: 1
Lion's Den
Blue Sites: 1
Roman Prison
Multi-Color Heroes: 2
Jehoram the Priest (Teal)
Joiada, Son of Eliashib (Teal)
White Heroes: 1
Susanna
Red Heroes: 3
Abishai
David
Rahab
Blue Heroes: 1
Seth
Purple Heroes: 3
Hosea
Lois
Prince Jonathan
Multi-Color Hero Enhancements: 2
Capturing Canaan (red/gold)
Ears to Hear
Silver Hero Enhancements: 3
Innumerable
Sixth Seal, The
Spiritual Sight
White Hero Enhancements: 3
Child of Great Wisdom
Demons in Chains
Moses and Elders
Red Hero Enhancements: 2
Authority of Peter
Buckler
Gold Hero Enhancements: 1
Fearlessness of Joshua
Green Hero Enhancements: 1
Paul's Books and Parchments
Blue Hero Enhancements: 2
A Wife for Isaac
Ehud's Dagger
Purple Hero Enhancements: 1
Prayer of Faith
Crimson Evil Characters: 1
Nebushasban
Gold Evil Characters: 2
King Jehoiakim
Pharaoh Neco
Pale Green Evil Characters: 2
Esau, the Hunter
King Sargon II
Brown Evil Characters: 5
Abner
Athaliah
King Jeroboam I
King Omri
Korah
Crimson Evil Enhancements: 1
Habitation of Demons
Gold Evil Enhancements: 1
Subject Deserted
Pale Green Evil Enhancements: 1
Rage
Black Evil Enhancements: 2
High Priest's Plot
Vain Vision
Gray Evil Enhancements: 2
Bow and Arrow
Scoff at Angels
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I'm suppose to be getting internet at my house on Thur. as long as RTS works on it I'll be there!
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Tracer, You're deck needs one less lost soul, and then one more randomly added card. Otherwise it looks good.
Crashfach, sounds good, but please try to get me a decklist by Friday night.
Also, I would like to remind everyone to please email/pm me your decklists so that I can look over them. You will not be considered entered until I have your decklist in email/pm form. My email is jsalstad@gmail.com. This just ensures that I know who's participating and with what deck. Posting them here or in the other thread is okay as well if you'd like, but then everyone gets to see what you have, and I'm not requiring it. You can only enter one deck of the ones you generate, but feel free to generate as many as you like.
I look forward to seeing your entries.
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You will not be considered entered until I have your decklist in email/pm form
Email sent
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So I can enter only one deck, but I can generate until I get one I like? I plan on entering.
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So I can enter only one deck, but I can generate until I get one I like? I plan on entering.
I think the idea is that the first one you get you get.
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That's what I thought, but the way Prof worded like I was not sure.
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A question about lost souls: are we using 7 non-SA, 7 that we select, or 7 generated randomly?
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That's what I thought, but the way Prof worded like I was not sure.
The deck you send me is the one you use for the tourney, whether it's your first, second, tenth or 30000th.
A question about lost souls: are we using 7 non-SA, 7 that we select, or 7 generated randomly?
I answered this on the other thread, but here it is again for easier reference. It's just like Booster Draft, in that you can use any soul that you "draft", then add generic LS's to get 7.
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The deck you send me is the one you use for the tourney, whether it's your first, second, tenth or 30000th.
The seems like it could be a problem. If I generated 30000 decks, I'm sure I could find one in there that was actually pretty decent even if it were random. I would have a distinct advantage over people who only tried to make 1 deck.
On the other hand, there is nothing (other than the honor system) that could ensure that people are even creating random decks to begin with, much less using their first one. So I don't really have a solution, just wanted you to be aware of the problem.
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The deck you send me is the one you use for the tourney, whether it's your first, second, tenth or 30000th.
The seems like it could be a problem. If I generated 30000 decks, I'm sure I could find one in there that was actually pretty decent even if it were random. I would have a distinct advantage over people who only tried to make 1 deck.
On the other hand, there is nothing (other than the honor system) that could ensure that people are even creating random decks to begin with, much less using their first one. So I don't really have a solution, just wanted you to be aware of the problem.
You raise valid points. The reason I am not concerned so much with it is that I don't think people would spend that much time generating hundreds or thousands of decks waiting for the right one, all to try to win a tournament where the best prize could be an Angry Mob. The tournament is mostly for fun, with the chance to get really lucky if you win (and I randomly select AoC Promo as the prize). I want people to be able to generate several decks and choose one so that they can compete with someone who may have gotten a decent deck on their first time. For example, if I were to generate a deck with one 4/4 hero and no enhancements for him, why would I even play in the tournament if that were the deck I had to use? I am aiming for randomness as the primary force behind the tournament, but I think that it is reasonable to allow a certain measure of benefit for extra effort.
As far as the potential non-randomness issue, all of the entrants so far have sent me decks that seemed reasonably random. I suppose that some of them could have just been very well disguised as a random deck, but I honestly doubt it. If I see a deck that makes me suspicious, then as I have said, I will make sure to deal with that on a case-by-case basis.
I do appreciate your concerns, and I have considered those issues, but I have determined that they won't be a problem from my perspective.
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We also talked about the fact that one person could build many random decks and then assign them to players, which would limit the amount of cheating. But it was determined that players would be more interested if they could at least build their own deck.
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Still one and a half more days to join! Question for those of you who have joined: would you mind allowing AIM and/or chess chat as a venue for playing games? I know it's not ideal, but I do want to encourage more players to join, so I'm currently thinking yes. Let me know by tomorrow if you have concerns about that. Also, if you had said you wanted to join and have not yet sent me a decklist, please do so. Thanks!
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I would much prefer they not be allowed - using those two implies that whoever needs them is using a physical deck. Sounds like a slowdown to me.
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I would much prefer they not be allowed - using those two implies that whoever needs them is using a physical deck. Sounds like a slowdown to me.
I agree and I don't have time for another system quite honestly. Hamachi is about all I got
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I e-mailed you my deck yesterday!
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Got it. Thanks!
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15 hours left to join! Currently there are six players in the tournament, it'd be great to have at least eight. Also, because of the preferences of current tournament players, RTS WILL be a requirement.
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Id be up for it I should have a deck up soon.
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Awesome! Just send me a decklist and you're in!
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Hey everyone!
The final particpants are entered, and the first round pairings are listed on the second post. There will be four rounds, and each round will last one week, unless all the games are finished early, in which case we can start round two sooner. Games for round one must be finished by 12 AM CST Saturday, Jan 16, unless there is an issue that merits an extension. I have created the following Hamachi group for everyone to join to make it easier to find each other. Please do not join unless you are part of ROUT.
Name: Redemption_ROUT
Password: Random
Please post results on this thread, giving players, winners, and scores.
Thanks for participating, and have fun!
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sk beat me in our scheduled game 5-4. If only he had 1 more lost soul!
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Hey, heads up, I discovered today my Hamachi is not working. I am working on fixing teh problem in order to participate in this, because it will be awesome. Pending further updates though, I can not play.
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Hey, heads up, I discovered today my Hamachi is not working. I am working on fixing teh problem in order to participate in this, because it will be awesome. Pending further updates though, I can not play.
Well let me know if you can get it fixed. If you can get it fixed in the next few days, I don't think an extension should be a problem, as only one of the three games has been completed so far.
RDT and STAMP? You guys still up for this? I haven't heard anything from either of you.
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I sent RDT a PM. I'm ready to play today, tomorrow or Sunday.
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Alright, sounds good.
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STAMP, I don't think I have you in any of my networks. If I'm wrong let me know, I'm on now and will be for pretty much the rest of the weekend.
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If you guys don't share networks, please join this one:
Name: Redemption_ROUT
Password: Random
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I managed to beat STAMP earlier today in a great game,
I didn't draw many souls early, and those that I did I locked away in sites.
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*instapost*
RDT won in a simply awesome game even with the score being 5-1! I was this close to coming back several times, and in each instance RDT had the right answer. It was epic! I don't want to give anything else away but I do have to reveal that I used Delilah with Wickedness of Delilah to destroy an unbeatable band. And I actually needed the name on name bonus!!
I haven't had so much fun since,...well since Nats! :)
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Yeah, Delilah was awesome, totally caught me off guard, I was hoping you would block with her, since I couldn't kill the other one you had, But I wasn' expecting that!
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Glad to hear you guys are enjoying it! Scores will be updated shortly.
Alex, any updates on your Hamachi situation? If you think it could get resolved in the next few days, then I'll wait, otherwise I might have to give this one to Tracer. Given the four rounds however, one loss doesn't mean you are out of contention, if you think you'll be able to play the next round.
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I'll have some time to mess with it tonight and tommorow. I will update you then on if I have solved or, or at least know what is wrong.
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I have it fixed I believe. Tracer, I am PMing you about when you can play now.
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Well in the interest of competitive play, and since there are only six players, I will allow this round to continue in the hope that the next round should be smoother if all Hamachi problems are resolved. Sorry for the wait for those of you who got done earlier, but I can certainly forgive Alex's Hamachi problems, as I seem to be having some of my own. Hopefully Alex and Tracer can get their game in soon. Please post or PM me with questions or concerns.
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Hamachi seems to be messing up everywhere right now. I had forgot to go away while I ate, and Tracer msg'd me, but then Hamachi went down. I'm not sure what's going on here.
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Tracer and I tied 3-3.
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Thanks for letting me know!
Alright then...that means that round 2 has begun!
Pairings will be listed on first page.
Round two will last officially until 12:00 AM CST Tuesday, January 26, unless all the games are completed before then. Good luck!
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RDT managed some surprising :o combos to win 5-4. Great game.
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Hey,
I missed the time I scheduled to play Crash. I feel that he should be awarded the win over me because of that. Thanks.
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Yeah, SK played a great game, It was crazy, gotta love last ditch draws.
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RDT managed some surprising :o combos to win 5-4. Great game.
Good to hear!
Hey,
I missed the time I scheduled to play Crash. I feel that he should be awarded the win over me because of that. Thanks.
Thanks for letting me know. You guys still have until the end of the day tomorrow, but if nothing works out, I will certainly keep this in consideration.
STAMP or Tracer? Any results yet?
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RDT managed some surprising :o combos to win 5-4. Great game.
Good to hear!
Hey,
I missed the time I scheduled to play Crash. I feel that he should be awarded the win over me because of that. Thanks.
Thanks for letting me know. You guys still have until the end of the day tomorrow, but if nothing works out, I will certainly keep this in consideration.
STAMP or Tracer? Any results yet?
STAMP I am going to be unable to play the remaining games for this tournament. School is seeming to be harder than I first thought. Therefore I respectfully withdraw......sorry all.
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RDT managed some surprising :o combos to win 5-4. Great game.
Good to hear!
Hey,
I missed the time I scheduled to play Crash. I feel that he should be awarded the win over me because of that. Thanks.
Thanks for letting me know. You guys still have until the end of the day tomorrow, but if nothing works out, I will certainly keep this in consideration.
STAMP or Tracer? Any results yet?
STAMP I am going to be unable to play the remaining games for this tournament. School is seeming to be harder than I first thought. Therefore I respectfully withdraw......sorry all.
Very sorry to hear that. Good luck with school though!
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I'm sorry, too, Tracer. The one night you were able to play a game, I was too busy with family affairs.
Maybe there is someone who would like to take your deck and play in your spot the rest of the way?? If so, I am available to play that person.
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I'm sorry, too, Tracer. The one night you were able to play a game, I was too busy with family affairs.
Maybe there is someone who would like to take your deck and play in your spot the rest of the way?? If so, I am available to play that person.
This would be great! Please let me know if either of you find someone. If I know by tonight or tomorrow, I can extend the round a couple of days.
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Well, I guess I'm going to call this round, so the third round will begin. See first page for details. I will give Tracer's opponent a bye for this round, unless someone can be found to take his place, in which case we can have a game.
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Sweetness, Crash - I'll be on tonight, late tomorrow and friday for sure.
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Sweetness, Crash - I'll be on tonight, late tomorrow and friday for sure.
I should be on any of those nights!
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Crash beat me 5-2.
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I got lucky by having the right good characters at the right time! Meaning really early, since we both basically decked out.
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Wow! You guys decked out? :o
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I only had 2-4 cards left, and he only had 1. He had Prince of this World out and I had Warriors Beast from the Sea, so we had to find a way around that before we could do anything! Which is why I got lucky, I was able to win 2 lost souls before Prince found his way out.
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No. I had a card left - Crash had 4. The only reason it went as long as it did is I drew my Prince and staved him off for a while.
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@sk - Let me know what are good times to try and play our game. Early Saturday mornings are always good for me.
@Professor - Since we are down to five players maybe we can switch to playing round robin. it would only be one extra round and would take the byes out of the equation.
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I've planned to go to Bryon's tournament this Saturday AM, but I have some cold symptoms that had me clear my schedule today/tomorrow in hopes of rest. I'll keep an eye on my email, so hit me with a PM when you have time to play... I'm pretty free :-\
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@Professor - Since we are down to five players maybe we can switch to playing round robin. it would only be one extra round and would take the byes out of the equation.
After thinking about this, I realized that this would probably be the best way to go about it, unless there are any objections. The only potential problem I could see is the one game that Tracer did play (a 3-3 tie with Alex) would no longer count, and I feel that may be unfair. But if Alex is okay with that game not counting, and everyone else is on board, then Round Robin will be how it goes. The games played/forfeited due to time so far would still count, and LS differential would still apply.
If anyone has any objections, please let me know for sure by Monday; I will only go forward with this by a unanimous vote. Otherwise the original format will be continued. The games you have for this round will be part of the new format if it goes on. I will PM all of you soon to let me know your thoughts.
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If we do this I would be more than willing to replay my game with Alex_Olijar, so that it is an actual game and not a forfeit!
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Sounds good to me. It lets this be a little more flexible too, which I prefer. My schedule is a lot more hectic than even I had realized :D
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Yeah, I guess that's cool with me.
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Well I've received consent from all of the players involved. See first page for changes!
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So since we are doing round robin, if I see Alex or Stamp can we just play at anytime or do we need to still wait for a round to be over?
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Nope. I will update the rules soon, but you can go ahead and play anyone available who you haven't played yet.
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Hey Alex and Stamp, when are the best times for you to play a game? Just so you know I'm on EST.
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I'm available generally between 10am - 1pm ET on Saturday and Sunday. Other days and times would have to be scheduled.
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Crash beat me 5-3. Another fun game!
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It was a very good game! Enjoyed it very much!
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Thanks guys! Rankings updated.
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For the good of the tournament, I'm going to withdraw. I just don't have time to do this. I apologize for holding this up for so long. I have been hoping to find time, because it was a great time the one game I played, but it is just not going to work for me. :(
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Alright, thanks for letting me know. Sorry to hear that you can't play.
So I guess the only game left is sk vs. STAMP. Let me know if you guys play, and I can give out prizes after that.
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I will have lots of time starting tonight gping through until Sunday. sk, I'll keep hamachi open whenever I'm on the computer. :)
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Stamp and I just completed our game, with my deck managing to win 5-3.
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Good game. FUN game! :) His Haman promo kept me at bay just long enough. My Ahimaaz that was trained in rtighteousness finally took out his Haman and Nebby (TexP) but by then the damage was done. My defense was stuck on the bottom of my deck. Thinking back I may have been able to make the score closer. He "Boiled" my Lois. I could have gotten rid of Haman sooner but blew it.
I really like this ROUT tournament. Not a whole lot of complicated rulings questions! :D