Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Deck Concepts => Topic started by: thestrongangel on December 03, 2008, 02:05:17 PM
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What is MASK?
???
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What is MASK?
???
Choose any of the following:
a) Mark Attempted Stopping KingSpeed (in T1-MP)
b) Multi Associasion of Speed Killers
c) Multiplayer's All Speed Kids
d) My Assassinating Speed kceD
e) Most All Speedsters (are) Kewl
f) All of the above
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I guess it kills Speed
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It was the Multiplayer Association of Speed Killers.
It was designed to organize enough people to actually use the cards available to stop the speed archtype decks from totally dominating T1-mp.
It was a complete failure at Nats '08, where speed decks again placed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
It is basically defunct at this point.
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I think booster killed MASK more than speed did. :laugh:
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I think booster killed MASK more than speed did. :laugh:
XD
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I think booster killed MASK more than speed did. :laugh:
This is probably true. But as long as T1-mp is played on the same day as Booster Draft, that entire event will continue to languish. It's too bad to because T1-mp is really a very fun event (excluding the repetitiveness of speed decks at Nats). I'd really like to see T1-mp on Thur so that more people will get a chance to give it a try :)
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I think booster killed MASK more than speed did. :laugh:
This is probably true. But as long as T1-mp is played on the same day as Booster Draft, that entire event will continue to languish. It's too bad to because T1-mp is really a very fun event (excluding the repetitiveness of speed decks at Nats). I'd really like to see T1-mp on Thur so that more people will get a chance to give it a try :)
that would be greatness :)
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Guys even if there were a million MASK players, it wouldn't stop a high caliber player with a well built "speed deck". I think you people are looking at the "problem" the wrong way, you don't need anti speed cards to beat it. You need good players that actually put good defense in their decks along with a good offense. It's that simple, it aint calculus.
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Ah, so the problem is there are other players around! We have been solving that problem during Nationals recently, by having Booster Draft at the same time. Eventually there will come a time that only 2 people are in multiplayer, and the problem is gone completely!
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I think Playing Booster at Nats is overrated. Having played it in both of the past two years, I think it is too much based on luck than on skill. Depending upon the tin you receive and the the type of distribution, you could get stuck at a table of people all drafting the same thing ( like I was last year when three people were all drafting the purple kings deck)
I think the novelty of BD at nats should wear off for vetran players as they realize this and I think that some of those vetran players should commit with me to playing a MASK deck at Nats. Together we can transform the way type I multiplayer is played.
I am ready to commit to playing a MASK deck at Nats in Type 1 Multiplayer. Would anyone else be willing to commit to playing a MASK deck in Multiplayer @ nats?
Now there is of course no guarrantee that I will be able to GO to nats, but if I am able to, I commit to playing a MASK deck.
Id like to see those speed freaks fall ;D
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wow, I didnt realize this thread had been zombiefied.
little, be sure you add something worthwhile before resurrecting a thread.
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Holy Doublepost Necropost Batman!
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Crust didn't double necropost.
BD is mostly fun to me, rather than competition. I might play a diff event than BD if anything BUT t1 MP was offered that day, sadly, I've had bad t1 MP experiances in the past and I don't volentarily torture myself often.
(Edit: Wow typolicious)
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Crust didn't double necropost.
I did double post ( I will claim that one) the the double post was to call out Littlenumberedmusician ( now crossfire?!?) for necroposting on the thread and adding some nonsense about greeks being the only defense to kill speed. There a litterally bazillions of combinations that can slow speed down..its just that speed players dont play with them because would kill their own deck.
BD is mostly fun to me, rather than competition. I might play a diff event than BD if anything BUT t1 MP was offered that day, sadly, I've had bad t1 MP experiances in the past and I don't volentarily torture myself often.
(Edit: Wow typolicious)
Lol. I guessing that Heroless is not a good multiplayer deck... lol
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Lol, more that I've seen people with awesome decks get ripped apart cuz people teamed up on them so a certain person could score better.
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Yeah, Dominant flow is a problem in Multiplayer.
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While i am not a verteran player I would totally be up form Masking it in type 1 multiplayer... however I won't be able to make it to nats unless someone invents transporters before then... or has a cheap way for me and my wife to get the CA from Kentucky
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I think Playing Booster at Nats is overrated. Having played it in both of the past two years, I think it is too much based on luck than on skill. Depending upon the tin you receive and the the type of distribution, you could get stuck at a table of people all drafting the same thing ( like I was last year when three people were all drafting the purple kings deck)
Perhaps the tournament host should make sure that the same tins are placed at the same table. That's an easy solution to that problem. Perhaps sometime in the future we will get to go back to the old style of booster drafts which I like better.
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I think I figured... why MASK never worked. It's caused speed decks aren't just speed. They also have HUGE offenses. Several people have defenses doesn't matter. Having Seraphim Tribal Elder Maharai Claudia Simeon Captain in only a few turns is almost impossible to stop if you can't draw as fast as them.
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Nope. MASK didn't work because there just weren't enough people playing it. Too many members played Booster instead. If we had 2 MASK decks at each table, then the speed decks wouldn't be doing anything :)
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In order for mask to work properly everyone BUT the speed player at that table must be MASK, or else the one who isn't will just get their ls ripped away by the speeder.
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yall crack me up! :-* Everyone just needs to play defense period, it's not rocket science! Also type 1 multiplayer is missing "great players". That alone makes the playing field lopsided as the good players get to pick on many weak links at each table. It makes my world a whole lot easier because of this problem, and I think this is the real issue here not "speed".
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That's very true. We've got a lot of really great mutliplayers here in CA, so natz should be competitive in that category.
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That's very true. We've got a lot of really great mutliplayers here in CA, so natz should be competitive in that category.
If T1-MP is played at the same time as draft and the new set is used in the draft, then I expect a small showing in T1-MP once again. T1-MP just can't compete with the thrill of getting the new cards - especially after everyone sees what they are! :)
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Yes, gabe, but I still stand by my orignial post. BD is overrated. anyone can get the cards and in fact, it really gives playtesters an unfair advantage because they have helped create those sets and are likely to come into the boosterdraft with a bank of knowledge that the rest of us wont have.
Aside from that, BD is more dependant upon who draws LS's and in what order than the calibre of the offense or the way you can make your draft gel with your tin. Since BD is 90% offense, if the person to the righ of me draws LS before other people do, I will win. Period.
I think Playing Booster at Nats is overrated. Having played it in both of the past two years, I think it is too much based on luck than on skill. Depending upon the tin you receive and the the type of distribution, you could get stuck at a table of people all drafting the same thing ( like I was last year when three people were all drafting the purple kings deck)
I think the novelty of BD at nats should wear off for vetran players as they realize this and I think that some of those vetran players should commit with me to playing a MASK deck at Nats. Together we can transform the way type I multiplayer is played.
I am ready to commit to playing a MASK deck at Nats in Type 1 Multiplayer. Would anyone else be willing to commit to playing a MASK deck in Multiplayer @ nats?
Now there is of course no guarrantee that I will be able to GO to nats, but if I am able to, I commit to playing a MASK deck.
Id like to see those speed freaks fall ;D
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...in fact, it really gives playtesters an unfair advantage because they have helped create those sets and are likely to come into the boosterdraft with a bank of knowledge that the rest of us wont have.
How many playtesters have you seen booster drafting at Nationals? Most if not all are judging. Assuming that a couple have drafted, how many have actually placed? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the answer is none. If all that is true then where's this "unfair advantage"? :dunno:
You're entitled to your opinion about how horrible booster draft is but keep in mind that it's rather scewed by your dislike for the category. :P
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woah, gabe.
first, who said I didn't like booster draft. I do like it, I said that it was overrated. People jump on booster draft at nats like a pack of lions on a baby gazelle. There is some crazed look in their eye and almost addictive lust that compells many of play booster draft for reasons that supercede the natural reasons for wanting to play. The idea of "playing in the first booster draft with the new set" and of building some super crazy BD combo with your tin and your draft. Hey, I have been there. My first Nats I bought the FoOf cards and stayed up late the night before nats, thinking of strategies to use in BD the next day. I woke up tired and drafting a purple kings tin at the same table as two other purple kings tin; We were all stealing each others purple and crimson enhancements.
Second, I don't know how many playtesters there are, but there arent that many judges for BD at nats. I think there were 4 judges at Columbus and 5-6 at Kansas City. I know of at least 5 playtesters that were not judging and some of them (but not all of them) were playing in BD. true, none of them placed, but that is likely because of the fact that winning is largely determined by who draws LS and when as I mentioned in my last post.
I'm not bitter or angry at BD. I just think that for vetran players it should lose its luster after a while.
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How many playtesters have you seen booster drafting at Nationals? Most if not all are judging. Assuming that a couple have drafted, how many have actually placed? Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the answer is none. If all that is true then where's this "unfair advantage"? :dunno:
<--remembers playing Bryon at the top table in the final round of Nationals 2007 Booster Draft...just to stir up the hornet's nest.... and to be clear, that's not to say his playing ability didn't bring him there :P
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winning is largely determined by who draws LS and when as I mentioned in my last post.
Yes, but that's T1 MP too.
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I just think that for vetran players it should lose its luster after a while.
I disagree. All I usually play at tournaments is BD and Sealed Deck. Booster Draft, for me, creates a more level playing field than decks that some players have been tweaking for an entire year. I have not taken part in many FooF or RoA drafts, so I am speaking mainly from the traditional sense. However, the few tin drafts I have done, I found that my offense/defense was not centered on the tin brigades. I don't count on getting a certain brigade, but rather I focus on characters and enhancements that will win a battle single-handedly. My BD decks are splash decks.
I do not grow weary of opening packs, either. The Zengarnick Effect grips me until every pack is open. :o
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winning is largely determined by who draws LS and when as I mentioned in my last post.
Yes, but that's T1 MP too.
Which is why I want to (and want other people to) committ to playing MASK decks in type 1 multiplayer. Perhaps then it will be different when MASK players bring their Speedkilling Arts and Defense.
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How is MASK going to change that? We're talking about the dynamics of multiplayer here, not a certain type of deck (aka speed). If it's that way in a "watered down" card pool (booster draft) where there aren't any speed decks it will always be that way in T1-MP too.
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Kurt Hake doesn't use speed, and yet he somehow always wins... ::)
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How is MASK going to change that? We're talking about the dynamics of multiplayer here, not a certain type of deck (aka speed). If it's that way in a "watered down" card pool (booster draft) where there aren't any speed decks it will always be that way in T1-MP too.
I dissagree. MASK players believe that the dynamics of multiplayer would change greatly with the addition of a few mask players at each table (Granted this is a realtively untested belief). With the addition of stronger defenses and artifacts that slow the play of the game, no longer will the winner be decided by who pulls what LS and when. IF the player to my right is a MASK player and he pulls a LS that doesnt really help me much.
Speed decks are known to have several common components. Lots of Heroes, Several killer enhancements along with several drawing enhancements, and little or no defense. By affecting the amount of defense available and the speed of the game, MASK can hopefully change the layout of Multiplayer and make it more diverse.
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If you believe all that to be true you should start a MASK group to fix the problems you perceive in booster draft too. :)
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I don't think MASK can really change anything... for several reasons:
1. People want to win(and use speed), not try out a new theory to see if they can stop speed and then ruin their win in the process.
2. Speed isn't easy to stop. They can probably draw their offense and gifts WAY before you can draw rain becomes dust and those types of cards.
3. Speed can get past a defense. Aocp, high number bands, obedience of noah and rueben's torn clothes, moses with his covenant, transfiguration, and more. They can get past big defenses.
And so what's the point? You won't be able to stop speed. Sorry. :)
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to win a game of redemption you have to have 5 souls before an opponent. its a race.
as such, the deck that can do this the fastest is the best deck.
that deck that does and will continue to win will be large offense with a lot of card draw to ensure constancy in drawing the powerfully cards (dominants) before their opponent does.
defense does not win the game, it only prevents your opponent from winning for awhile, but eventually if you don't get a soul, your opponent wins, no matter how long it takes them to.
this is even more true in multi-player where one player doesn't have a good deck. the guy to the right of them will poach a bunch of souls while the rest can only watch him win.
until something changes on the aspect of the games scoring being a race, speed will dominate type 1 multi-player, and to a lesser extent, type 2 multi-player
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I don't think MASK can really change anything... for several reasons:
1. People want to win(and use speed), not try out a new theory to see if they can stop speed and then ruin their win in the process.
2. Speed isn't easy to stop. They can probably draw their offense and gifts WAY before you can draw rain becomes dust and those types of cards.
3. Speed can get past a defense. Aocp, high number bands, obedience of noah and rueben's torn clothes, moses with his covenant, transfiguration, and more. They can get past big defenses.
And so what's the point? You won't be able to stop speed. Sorry. :)
In multiplayer? Maybe. In 2p speed is anything but unstoppable ;). The issue is more the randomness of the lay out. You could have 3 speeders and 6 mask and 2 of the 3 speeds could be at one table.
defense does not win the game, it only prevents your opponent from winning for awhile, but eventually if you don't get a soul, your opponent wins, no matter how long it takes them to.
Talk to Mike hue about this one.
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What happens if I start to win multi with a heroless on a consistent basis? Are you going to come up with something to stop that as well? :-* MASK is epic fail. Anyone who thinks MASK is more than myth is crazy, it'll never work. And everybody stop whining about speed and just play with some defense. I can't wait to see people scrambling for their Alter of Dagon after I start playing heroless in multiplayer, it's going to be a ton of fun to prove that speed isn't the key to winning multiplayer. :-* :-* :-* I'm going to laugh so hard as everyone at my table suddenly realizes what I've done to multi.
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But, Daniel, when you start playing Heroless in T1-MP you'll be part of MASK by definition, whether intentional or not. By your own admission that makes you "epic fail". The paradox is mind boggling. :laugh: :-* :-* :-*
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::) :P Oh well... :-*
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There's way too much kissing going on here for a non-Natz award ceremony.
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K it wont happen again... :-* I'm sorry I can't seem to stop, it's so addictive! :-*
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K it wont happen again... :-* I'm sorry I can't seem to stop, it's so addictive! :-*
I have that problem around my wife. She's hot. :-* -> YourMathTeacher'sWife