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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => Deck Concepts => Topic started by: bmc25 on June 12, 2009, 03:25:47 PM

Title: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: bmc25 on June 12, 2009, 03:25:47 PM
Please prove me wrong! I have tried i really have. But unless i make a deck that is defence heavy my defence just becomes a waste of time. Now I will admit that I am by no means a defensive specialist. I have always won with a great offence with a 2-3 block defence or none at all. That is why I think that a small "defence" is not worthwhile. A great offence will tear through it in seconds, 99.99999% of the time. Now a jaugernaut defence is defenatly worthwhile, but unless it is a 2-3 block defence or a deck LOADED with defence it's just a waste of space in your deck to have a 12-18 card defence?

-What are your feelings on this?
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: BubbleBoy on June 12, 2009, 03:28:06 PM
Depends on your style of play and deck-building ability, as does just about everything. If your defenses never work, try using none. :dunno:
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: TimMierz on June 12, 2009, 03:29:58 PM
it's just a waste of space in your deck to have a 12-18 card defence

My favorite deck (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=11930.0) had 9 ECs and 7 evil enhancements. That 16-card defense most definitely served me well, at least.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Ironica on June 12, 2009, 03:30:33 PM
Defense is the best part for me :).  For all four of my decks, I build the defense first and then the offense.  If you want a low defense, you could try site-lock (either with brown or gold with building egypt (and with gold, you can have KOT without fear of GT)).  It might help you.....for now.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: bmc25 on June 12, 2009, 03:42:00 PM
yes Tim I remember that defence! as you were my first loss at Nats that year! But your defence worked well with your offence. It did the same thing that your offence did and that was get cards out of peoples hands.

-Yes i love defence but only when I use an abundance of it.
-Not a fan of site lockout too easy to beat.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Rrulez on June 12, 2009, 03:43:01 PM
Offense is a waste of time!
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: bmc25 on June 12, 2009, 03:50:30 PM
lol yea...
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: The Schaef on June 12, 2009, 07:03:41 PM
Defenseless decks have been effective in the past.  The trick is to use it to hammer your opponent as much as possible as fast as possible, before they catch on to the fact that most of their rescues will be free points, and start walking over.

I personally am a much more defensive player than most, and I look for all kinds of ways to stop a rescue.  But I think that boils down a lot more to play style than anything.  Some people are tanks, some are ninjas, some like balance, some like working a theme that no one is expecting, or expecting to work.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on June 12, 2009, 07:10:43 PM

-Not a fan of site lockout too easy to beat.


I'm sorry say what?? You obviously haven't played me or any other accomplished site-lock player, I don't care if you're playing with all 8 offensive colors 3 access cards and no defense, I'll still lock you out, or at least slow you down enough for my offense to get the win.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on June 12, 2009, 10:12:44 PM
Offense is a waste of time!
+1

As much as I love Hulking Huge defenses I do have a few compact ones for when I use a normal offense. It must be built properly though and you must know what you are doing. Babylonians do well in compact defenses.

Signed,
The Heroless.

P.s. Your title offends me ;)
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on June 12, 2009, 10:22:58 PM
My 35 card behemoth site lock defense says hi. I'd like to play you at least once with it....  ;D
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: TimMierz on June 13, 2009, 12:04:24 AM
If you read his post, he suggests that defense is a waste unless it's a big one like you guys employ. He thinks a small to medium sized one is worthless, not your "35 card behemoth."
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 13, 2009, 12:14:21 AM
Honestly, Tim has the perfect small sized defense, especially paired with his offense. It provides enough blocks in about 20% of your deck, plus it helps the offense by getting rid of cards from the opponents hand. IMO, your defense needs to be built to make your offense succeed. If your defense is there to compliment your main goal, rescusing souls, rather than preventing your opponent's goal, it will work better I bet.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on June 13, 2009, 01:25:09 AM
If you read his post, he suggests that defense is a waste unless it's a big one like you guys employ. He thinks a small to medium sized one is worthless, not your "35 card behemoth."

Well he said Site Lock was too easy to beat.  ;)

I agree though, your defense needs to be built with the offense in mind. Have a slow starting offense? Make sure your defense can get up and go quickly and hold off for a while... or use a similar theme as your offense, like tims defense.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: bmc25 on June 13, 2009, 11:31:01 AM
Tim is correct I was refering to a small sitelockout deck. I think any deck with a 35 card defence has a pretty good shot at locking someone else out unless that person is roy cannaday
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Red on June 13, 2009, 12:27:07 PM
use raiders camp assyrians.(or at least try)
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: BubbleBoy on June 13, 2009, 01:58:04 PM
use raiders camp assyrians.
That could be the absolute best kind of defense, depending on how it's used.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Red on June 13, 2009, 02:10:29 PM
it's in my Jseat deck
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Alex_Olijar on June 13, 2009, 09:40:47 PM
or anything that takes up space.

Fail.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: CountFount on June 14, 2009, 11:33:40 AM
Has anyone ever been a National Champion without a defense?
I think that in most (if not all) sports, games, the championship usually has a solid defense. Defense isn't going to win LS but it usually determines the championship.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: SerpentSlayer on June 14, 2009, 11:50:05 AM
This is soooo not true! GABE 07!
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: bmc25 on June 14, 2009, 12:02:43 PM
Jds 05 also just a basic stall defence, also a 50 card deck. So in the past 4 yrs 2 of the decks that won natz utalized small defences to stall. This is the kind of defence I condone!
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: CountFount on June 14, 2009, 01:32:40 PM
This is soooo not true! GABE 07!

Gabe's deck in 07 had defense, small but it had defense.:
Burial
christian Martyr
Destruction of Nehushtan
Falling Away

Lying Unto God

Red Dragon(10th Anniversary)

King of Tyrus(Warriors)

Emperor Nero
Sabbath Breaker

Prince of this World(Warriors)

My question was without "Any" defense.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on June 14, 2009, 02:34:36 PM
I myself am also a fan of defense, and while I've done the monstrosity 30-40 card defenses before I usually end up with about a 20 card defense (not including doms). While this is a little bigger than you were talking about I find that it usually holds up relitively well in the end. It comes down to having a combination of stall blocks and having stuff that can keep your opponent away for a while. That way your stalls can block while you get the rest of your defense set up. The way I usually do this is with brigades like pale green and gray which have great stalls like the suicide characters and others. These  can give you time to set up a raiders camp defense which can last a while. In the end its all a balancing act.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on June 14, 2009, 10:48:26 PM
Tim is correct I was refering to a small sitelockout deck. I think any deck with a 35 card defence has a pretty good shot at locking someone else out unless that person is roy cannaday
I've played roy with a heroless and locked him out cept for one misplay that cost me actually. He is lockoutable.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: bmc25 on June 15, 2009, 12:11:42 AM
I was reffering to his old speed deck, ctb, fbnb, aoc with the 4 site access cards. Idk what deck u played against was it that one?!
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on June 15, 2009, 12:39:50 AM
If done right, a site lock defense can clear out any access you have. One underused 6/8 evil character can pack a LOT of punch.
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on June 15, 2009, 12:44:31 AM
? as a heavy site player I'm confused as to what character you're referencing..
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Gabe on June 15, 2009, 12:47:16 AM
? as a heavy site player I'm confused as to what character you're referencing..

How many brown 6/8 characters are there? ;)
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Captain Kirk on June 15, 2009, 01:12:52 AM
I rocked a T2 deck exploting him before.  That was pretty wicked.  ;)

Kirk
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on June 15, 2009, 01:20:59 AM
I bet...  :D

Seriously though, when I go to make a new deck, I don't look at other peoples decks for ideas, I dig out my spreadsheet with every card, pick a brigade, and just start looking at every card. Sometimes its the cards you never knew EXISTED that can turn out to be total powerhouses... because how can your opponent plan for a card THEY didn't even knew existed.  :D
Title: Re: Defense is such a waste of time!
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on June 15, 2009, 03:36:14 PM
Exactly. Surprise is the best strategy, especially the higher up you go. People have normal deck counters burned in their brain so an unseen card throws them off.
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