Author Topic: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)  (Read 3931 times)

Offline Watchman

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #75 on: November 19, 2019, 02:02:56 PM »
+2
If I may ask, why was Red chosen as the color for "Meek" heroes? Is there a meaning that I missed somewhere?

It represents the lineage of Jesus (aka His bloodline).
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Offline Sean

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #76 on: November 20, 2019, 07:08:20 PM »
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Palegreen/Crimson hand control is gaining some strength.  Serpent's Curse + Death + Distressing People = 5 card max hand for your opponent.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #77 on: November 20, 2019, 07:56:35 PM »
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Palegreen/Crimson hand control is gaining some strength.  Serpent's Curse + Death + Distressing People = 5 card max hand for your opponent.

It gets better... or worse... depending on how you look at it.
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Offline AndyDevine1981

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #78 on: November 20, 2019, 08:02:53 PM »
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Palegreen/Crimson hand control is gaining some strength.  Serpent's Curse + Death + Distressing People = 5 card max hand for your opponent.

Oh to learn all the sweet sweet combos
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Gal. 2:20; Phil. 1:21 For to me to live is Christ...

Offline Sean

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2019, 08:08:38 AM »
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Palegreen/Crimson hand control is gaining some strength.  Serpent's Curse + Death + Distressing People = 5 card max hand for your opponent.

#Storehouse #Jacob(Israel) #FourLivingCreatures #SevenLampsofFire #EtcEtcEtc
Distressing People negates Jacob and FLC.  Only other card that works besides Storehouse and 7 Lamps'o'Fire is Tables of the Law (FoM)...maybe?  But Storehouse is the only one of those that seems like it is actually used based on deck lists that have been posted. And it was hinted that Storehouse is getting targeted by more cards in LoC.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 08:13:11 AM by Sean »
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2019, 07:37:08 PM »
+2
Head on over to Land of Redemption to check out some more BIG LoC news and a few previews too!
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Offline 777Godspeed

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #81 on: November 29, 2019, 01:46:56 AM »
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Amazingly BIG news, loved the spoiled cards and great article. Thanks Gabe.


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Mike
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #82 on: November 29, 2019, 07:39:11 AM »
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Be sure to check Discord for Black Friday spoilers every hour throughout the day! 8)
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #83 on: November 29, 2019, 07:48:40 AM »
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For hired sword, is the instead for the negate and draw or just the draw?  Im guess just the draw but not 100% sure based on wording

Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2019, 08:13:43 AM »
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For hired sword, is the instead for the negate and draw or just the draw?  Im guess just the draw but not 100% sure based on wording

It's not intended to instead the negate. We'll see if we can't add clarity. Thanks for pointing that out, Zac.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2019, 08:22:25 AM »
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I also had the same question. Perhaps the wording could be:

You may draw 1; opponent may discard the negated card instead.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2019, 08:35:06 AM »
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If the negated card is the only Hero in battle, does choosing to discard the negated card instead grant special initiative?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #87 on: November 29, 2019, 09:00:43 AM »
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If the negated card is the only Hero in battle, does choosing to discard the negated card instead grant special initiative?

Yes
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2019, 09:05:41 AM »
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Maybe word it:

Negate a card.  You may draw a card or your opponent can discard the negared card instead

Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2019, 07:42:12 PM »
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For Hired Sword we feel like it might be more clearly worded as - "Negate an opponent’s card. Opponent may discard the negated card. If they do, discard this card after battle. If they do not, you may draw 1."
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #90 on: November 30, 2019, 08:28:03 AM »
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For Hired Sword we feel like it might be more clearly worded as - "Negate an opponent’s card. Opponent may discard the negated card. If they do, discard this card after battle. If they do not, you may draw 1."

Sounds good
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Offline Sean

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #91 on: December 02, 2019, 01:28:34 PM »
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How do the Aliens SA work with it saying 'player' ?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2019, 01:34:03 PM »
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How do the Aliens SA work with it saying 'player' ?

The card becomes a captured character under the control of the chosen player. We used to write out "capture to a land of bondage" but the LoB is the default location for captured characters so spelling that out feels unnecessary.

Do you think that's something people will find confusing?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2019, 01:46:38 PM »
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My  :2cents: is that it can be confusing but so is wording on Claudius Lysias regarding “transfer to an opponent.”  There’s no consistent wording with these capture abilities:  Capture this character to opponent’s LoB, Capture this character, Transfer a character to an opponent. I feel that one term should be chosen, and that to be the simplest wording for newer players to easily understand, regarding this ability going forward.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #94 on: December 02, 2019, 02:14:37 PM »
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My  :2cents: is that it can be confusing but so is wording on Claudius Lysias regarding “transfer to an opponent.”  There’s no consistent wording with these capture abilities:  Capture this character to opponent’s LoB, Capture this character, Transfer a character to an opponent. I feel that one term should be chosen, and that to be the simplest wording for newer players to easily understand, regarding this ability going forward.

What you're saying sounds more like a problem with inconsistency vs not understanding what to do with the ability as written. I agree 100% that we should be consistent.

Is there something specific about "capture to a player" that seems confusing?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #95 on: December 02, 2019, 03:22:13 PM »
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As I mentioned at the top of my reply, that wording can be confusing (at least to newer players). But like many other abilities and words it can be learned easily.  The older wording of capture to X LoB will always be the clearest wording and clearer than “capture to opponent.”  But if “capture to opponent” will be the consistent wording then I think that wording will be fine, just so long as there’s consistency.
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Offline Sean

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #96 on: December 02, 2019, 03:52:39 PM »
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How do the Aliens SA work with it saying 'player' ?

The card becomes a captured character under the control of the chosen player. We used to write out "capture to a land of bondage" but the LoB is the default location for captured characters so spelling that out feels unnecessary.

Do you think that's something people will find confusing?
I was more confused by the new wording and your explanation makes sense to me.  I can't see the exact wording while at work so can't comment specifically but I think the hard part is that it isn't a standard capture. i.e. "Capture a hero" as that is simple and straight forward.

What if instead of "capture to player" we said "Exile X" 

"Exile" is defined as: Send a character to an opponent's Land of Bondage and treat as a Lost Soul.
"Capture" is defined as: Send a character to your Land of Bondage and treat as a Lost Soul.

Doing this will greatly shorten the wording I think but maybe doesn't make perfect sense?
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #97 on: December 02, 2019, 05:02:41 PM »
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For the most part Redemption doesn't eliminate old keywords through rotation or by no longer using them. In recent years we've tried to be very careful about adding new keywords so that we don't end up with too many. We've also tried to eliminate some redundancy (EX: ignore and repel or immune and protect). Adding another keyword that is a subset of capture feels like it might be a step in the opposite direction.

We also want to be very thoughtful about how clearly new keywords represent what they do. "Exile" is a term in MTG synonymous with our term "banish". I'm afraid if we used "exile" in Redemption for anything other than "remove from the game" it would be confusing for the many players that play both CCGs. "Bounce" and "reserve" are examples of recent keywords that most people find intuitive.

The capture portion of Aliens says "You may capture this card to a player." We have other cards in LoC and currently plan to use that same language anytime we want a captured card to be able to go to a Land of Bondage other than the player who is using the capture ability.

We expect to have to teach players that "capture" means - "This card becomes a captured character. Captured humans are treated as a Lost Soul. The default location for captured characters is the Land of Bondage."

Once you understand "capture" it's probably pretty clear what "You may capture this card" means on Aliens. That leave us with "to a player" potentially leaving confusion? We used similar language on Eternal Judgment last year ("give this card to a player" instead of "capture this card to a player") and I don't recall anybody asking what that means. Maybe it's our past inconsistency as the old language for "captured this card and place it in opponent's land of bondage" has become more refined?

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Offline Sean

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #98 on: December 02, 2019, 05:17:01 PM »
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For the most part Redemption doesn't eliminate old keywords through rotation or by no longer using them. In recent years we've tried to be very careful about adding new keywords so that we don't end up with too many. We've also tried to eliminate some redundancy (EX: ignore and repel or immune and protect). Adding another keyword that is a subset of capture feels like it might be a step in the opposite direction.

We also want to be very thoughtful about how clearly new keywords represent what they do. "Exile" is a term in MTG synonymous with our term "banish". I'm afraid if we used "exile" in Redemption for anything other than "remove from the game" it would be confusing for the many players that play both CCGs. "Bounce" and "reserve" are examples of recent keywords that most people find intuitive.

The capture portion of Aliens says "You may capture this card to a player." We have other cards in LoC and currently plan to use that same language anytime we want a captured card to be able to go to a Land of Bondage other than the player who is using the capture ability.

We expect to have to teach players that "capture" means - "This card becomes a captured character. Captured humans are treated as a Lost Soul. The default location for captured characters is the Land of Bondage."

Once you understand "capture" it's probably pretty clear what "You may capture this card" means on Aliens. That leave us with "to a player" potentially leaving confusion? We used similar language on Eternal Judgment last year ("give this card to a player" instead of "capture this card to a player") and I don't recall anybody asking what that means. Maybe it's our past inconsistency as the old language for "captured this card and place it in opponent's land of bondage" has become more refined?


I asked about Eternal Judgement as I thought it went to territory when it was given. :P

For me its definitely the to player part that is less intuitive.  That doesn't mean its not the best wording though.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Lineage of Christ (Spoilers)
« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2019, 08:19:04 PM »
+1
Sean and Watchman, thank you for your feedback! How we word these captures abilities was the topic of one of our play test calls. We're trying to do what's best and balance simple wording with easy to understand wording. Hearing from veteran players as to what makes sense and what does not is helpful.
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