Author Topic: Any top defenses?  (Read 2105 times)

Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Any top defenses?
« on: April 23, 2014, 03:04:17 PM »
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The overall meta and deck lists should still be the same from past nationals. With that being said, I still think the top offenses are judges- focusing on protected Gideon, Isaiah/Angles- focusing on speed and recursion, disciples -tgt/versatility, then the next tiers of Throne of David, Ahimelek banding, and cbn Genesis. Those are some pretty strong, fast offenses, all of which can win at the top level. So my question, what defenses have you all found that can stall, or flat out beat these powerhouse offenses?
On paper Herod's, to me, seem the best. Most of these offenses rely on banding or their numbers to win, Herod's stop that. Pale green is always the favorite, whether it is Assyrian's or magicians/Assyrian's. Canaanites mixed with some Philistines seem to be played decently too. Babylonians are strong but just can not seem to compete with the top offenses. Pharisees are being paired with these fast offenses for quick stall, and speed, but not so much for late game blocks.
So, with the states/regionals coming up, any type 2 advice for making defenses that can stop these offenses?
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Offline Minion of Jesus

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 04:24:29 PM »
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Although I don't play T2, I do have a largish deck, and I use Caananites and Philistines. I can shut out entire offenses with it, and have found few defenses I like more.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2014, 03:21:33 PM »
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I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I haven't tried a solid Brown T2 defense in a long time...Amon/Gates destroys banding (yes please, I'll inifini-block with Scattered). Gib Trick is always a great stall and Zed/Dungeon stops strong solo Heroes. Oh and I can throw Magic Charms on Manasseh to deal with CtB/PBI, sweet. Hmm...and if all else fails, I'll just use a Plot that I may or may not have to rip if I've drawn my Gallows.  :thumbup:
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Offline AJ

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2014, 03:59:09 PM »
+1
Canaanites by far. So many good cards to use in that defense.
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Offline jbeers285

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2014, 06:16:48 PM »
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Canaanites by far. So many good cards to use in that defense.

Good power but they can struggle against angels and banding. They also lack speed that is so beneficial in t2.
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Offline AJ

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2014, 06:30:28 PM »
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Canaanites by far. So many good cards to use in that defense.

Good power but they can struggle against angels and banding. They also lack speed that is so beneficial in t2.

All depends on the offense you pair them with.
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Offline jbeers285

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2014, 06:54:48 PM »
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No type 2 requires speed for both offense and defense. It's not like t1 where a super fast offense can overcome the lack of speed in a defense.
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Offline MitchRobStew

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2014, 08:30:02 PM »
+1
The overall meta and deck lists should still be the same from past nationals. With that being said, I still think the top offenses are judges- focusing on protected Gideon, Isaiah/Angles- focusing on speed and recursion, disciples -tgt/versatility, then the next tiers of Throne of David, Ahimelek banding, and cbn Genesis. Those are some pretty strong, fast offenses, all of which can win at the top level. So my question, what defenses have you all found that can stall, or flat out beat these powerhouse offenses?
On paper Herod's, to me, seem the best. Most of these offenses rely on banding or their numbers to win, Herod's stop that. Pale green is always the favorite, whether it is Assyrian's or magicians/Assyrian's. Canaanites mixed with some Philistines seem to be played decently too. Babylonians are strong but just can not seem to compete with the top offenses. Pharisees are being paired with these fast offenses for quick stall, and speed, but not so much for late game blocks.
So, with the states/regionals coming up, any type 2 advice for making defenses that can stop these offenses?

I really haven't been able to find a defenses that can stop everything.  Assyrian/magicians were pretty much the play before I/J and the newest tin.  I also liked Canaanites before the stuff as well (can mitigate banding w/ Canaan, Tower, and .  Both can struggle with Temple Priests.  Herod's can stuggle with Genesis/Throne.  I haven't really tried brown at all but Justin had some great points.  I guess their lack of play ability  and set up time/ ability to block Gideon has kept me from playing them in the past.  Pharisee have the easiest weaknesses to mitigate (cwd, angels) when built with those in mind.

No type 2 requires speed for both offense and defense. It's not like t1 where a super fast offense can overcome the lack of speed in a defense.

Their most common offensive pairing for Canaanites (Judges) can overcomes their lack of speed.  Though that is one of the few offenses that can overcome a slower defense.  Most defenses speed beside Pharisees speed comes from +2 from weapons which you are lucky if they last for more than one battle anyway.  Cannanites still have a + 1 or + 2 off Tower w/ TWoT which is pretty easy to set up early.  However I do agree they can struggle against angels and non cbn banding though you can building around those weaknesses.

Offline AJ

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 09:00:52 PM »
-1
No type 2 requires speed for both offense and defense. It's not like t1 where a super fast offense can overcome the lack of speed in a defense.

Like Mitch said a well built Canaanite defense paired with Judges is one of the best T2 decks IMO. 2nd place Natz deck ring any bells?
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Offline jbeers285

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 09:33:33 PM »
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No type 2 requires speed for both offense and defense. It's not like t1 where a super fast offense can overcome the lack of speed in a defense.

Like Mitch said a well built Canaanite defense paired with Judges is one of the best T2 decks IMO. 2nd place Natz deck ring any bells?

That was a deck used by a player for a long time with ton of tweaking.  Dayne ran the deck extremely well I doubt it will work out for someone less experienced with the deck.
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Offline AJ

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2014, 09:52:00 PM »
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No type 2 requires speed for both offense and defense. It's not like t1 where a super fast offense can overcome the lack of speed in a defense.

Like Mitch said a well built Canaanite defense paired with Judges is one of the best T2 decks IMO. 2nd place Natz deck ring any bells?

That was a deck used by a player for a long time with ton of tweaking.  Dayne ran the deck extremely well I doubt it will work out for someone less experienced with the deck.

True. But just because Dayne is a good player ( which he definitely is) doesn't take away from the build.
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2014, 08:20:32 AM »
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I like brown and with two characters now that have auto initiative they look even better. They can stop Gideon just fine, auto recur Gib Trick and DoM AUtO in territory. I have always played 112 with brown though as it has so many strong enhancements and such versatile ECs I cannot fit it in a smaller deck. The lack of drawing hurts it though. Disciples brown doesn't seem to flow, Judges brown could work, or TGT ladies if you include words x4. Might have to tinker with some brown. I would think Philistines would rule with all their stron ECs, horses and kill cards, but no DoU like cards and end the battle cards really hurts them, and since you can't keep an Ashera Pole active anymore, they don't really have a consistent, not carcasses, or any way at all, of having any CBN. Simon the M also got rocked. Any good persistent/words of discouragement decks floating around? Clift are you out there!? Seems like this season the best defense is a good offense.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2014, 06:47:36 PM »
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Brown has a bit of drawing with Wickedness Abounds (if you can fit a couple in) and Gates (D1), but certainly doesn't have the powerful drawing of Pharisees or Egyptians. I'm thinking about trying a Gates/Magicians build that utilizes Divination to get Gates out faster.
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2014, 09:03:45 AM »
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King Ahaz works well for that. I used to use Wickedness Abounds frequently, but like you said, hard finding the spot.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2014, 05:13:39 PM »
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Since I was mentioned in this thread, I'll just say that Canaanites are a fantastic D, but as pointed out, I have been running my Judging Canaan deck for 2+ seasons now, and it is very fine-tuned (and I know all of the ins-and-outs with it by now).  I have taken 2nd at Nats in T1-2P with it, but that is mostly due to the offense, not the defense.

Canaanites are a top defense to me because they have the ability to deal with almost any offense out there, but there are weaknesses if played wrong.  Relying solely on Stone will give you trouble when you hit solo angels, for example.  You have to be creative and flexible.  Also, you WILL run out of blocks.  It is not a question of "if."  Your offense has to be potent and fast enough to win the game, because you cannot stall forever.

Offline yirgogo

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 07:40:18 PM »
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On the topic of cannanites, I love to put wrath of satan in a deck, if they have a protected hero in battle, you can use that to discard all heroes, and than cbn discard their protected hero, and than usin Ashtaroth worhsip possibly! Also, gibeonite curse combined with vain philosophy has helped me win many battles because I can discard their son of God.
A defence that I think is overlooked is babylonians, they have a lot of potential, and can go at almost any size, especially if you throw in eziekiel to help with them.

Heretics I believe were mentioned, and what I have always wanted to do was combine them with greeks, and have a samaritain offence. use your heritics until you get abom out, and than use samaritains to discard their cards out, and you could even throw in set fire and high places to make your deck more annoying!
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Any top defenses?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2014, 03:21:25 AM »
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Just looking back at the late season commentary on top T2 defenses...and go figure, Jordan wins it all with Panic Demons... ::)

Hope everybody kept a few copies of Three Nails stashed somewhere... 8)
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