Author Topic: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin  (Read 2621 times)

Offline Red Wing

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The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« on: February 24, 2018, 09:47:01 PM »
+2
Alrighty guys, so here's my favorite post Nats ROJ meta list. After Nats, Kevinthedude and I were trying to find the best non Koney deck out there. We eventually settled on Martyrs and this was my first attempt I felt somewhat comfortable with. However, I soon discovered that the mono clay/Martyrs offense had a few significant weaknesses including limited rescuing options and an inability to deal with FBTN ECs. I also found that Pharisees were simply not the best option, so I switched to crimson. After discussing how good Ezekiel is with Kevin, he convinced me to try to run Zeke and Justin in the same deck: thus "The Next Big Thing" was born. I believe this deck is strictly better than any pure martyrs build. Basically, the deck includes all the key elements of Martyrs (Justin Polycarp Eternal Inheritance...) with the option to run CwD with Zeke as well as the awesome DAEs. Without further ado...
 
50 cards:
Lost Souls
Imitate
Dull
Wanderer
Lawless
Humble
Crowds
Punisher

Dominants
Son of God
Second Coming
Angel of the Lord
Three Woes
Christian Martyr
Falling Away (CoW)
Mayhem

Neutral
Covenant with Death
You Will Remain
I Am Creator
I am Gabe
Ends of the Earth
Babylon/The Harlot
Gamaliel's Speech
Fire Foxes
Forest Fire
Drawn Sword

Heroes
Angel From the Sun
Justin Martyr
Polycarp
Simeon (Di)
Paul
Peter
Barnabas
The Watchman
Ezekiel

Good Enhancements
Elymas Struck Blind
Faith of Samuel
Two Bears
Eternal Inheritance

Evil Characters
Nebuchadnezzar
Wild Dogs
Esau, the Hunter
Egyptian Rebel
Kings of the Earth
Sapphira
The Deceiver

Evil Enhancements
Hypocrisy
Christian Suing Another
Dream
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
Scattered
Disagreement over Mark

Reserve:
Word of Their Testimony
Foreign Wives
Uzzah
Blood of the Lamb
John, the Revelator
Resurrection of the Martyrs
Job's Wife
Emperor Vitellius
Gleaning the Fields
Philetus

Judges (Worse) Version
51 Cards:
Lost Souls
Imitate
Dull
Wanderer
Lawless
Humble
Crowds
Punisher

Dominants
Son of God
Second Coming
Angel of the Lord
Three Woes
Christian Martyr
Falling Away (CoW)
Mayhem

Neutral
Covenant with Death
You Will Remain
I Am Creator
I am Gabe
Ends of the Earth
Babylon/The Harlot
Fire Foxes
Forest Fire
Drawn Sword

Heroes
Angel From the Sun
Polycarp
Paul
The Watchman
Ezekiel
Moses (CoW)
The Angel under the Oak
Angel with the Secret Name
Ehud
Jepthah

Good Enhancements
Faith of Abel
Faith of Samuel
Faith of Gideon
Ehud's Dagger
Not Alone!

Evil Characters
Nebuchadnezzar
Wild Dogs
Esau, the Hunter
Egyptian Rebel
Kings of the Earth
Sapphira
The Deceiver

Evil Enhancements
Hypocrisy
Christian Suing Another
Dream
Nebuchadnezzar's Pride
Scattered
Disagreement over Mark

Reserve:
Word of Their Testimony
Foreign Wives
Uzzah
Blood of the Lamb
John, the Revelator
Justin Martyr
Job's Wife
Emperor Vitellius
Faith of Samson
Philetus
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 09:25:16 AM by Red Wing »
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 11:30:03 PM »
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Opening hand you have I am Creator and no other Heroes. Who is the first Hero you pull? (Granted I know it depends on what GE you start with, but all things being equal I'm curious).
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 11:51:24 PM »
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I think this is a pretty neat concept as I've been partial to running the Zeke splash in my Judges/Crimson deck for a couple years and now especially with The Watchman. I've thought about what could be best paired with martyrs (or basically just Justin) and I think this certainly has potential.

I guess the first thing I noticed was Gleaning the Fields in your Reserve... Is that supposed to be something else?

I feel like these days every Type 1 deck should be running The Woman with Child in Reserve if not in the main deck so perhaps that would be a good replacement if you didn't already have something in mind. Plus, with Simeon in there she wouldn't have to go in solo for the dom search. That being said, how often do you think you'll be attacking with Peter? I'm not sure if having Peter's CBN Acts Enhancements justifies running Elymas Struck Blind over Overcome. That way you would also have some backup for TWwC if you decide to include her.

Speaking of Peter, where's the 4D-Coin?

On defense, I've been using Crimson defense for awhile now and found that I'm sorta iffy on Christian Suing Another. I think you're probably better off with Astrologers and Invoking Terror over The Egyptian Rebel and Christian Suing Another. That's a tough call since Rebel pretty nice with both Sapphira and Kings of the Earth, but between Babylon|The Harlot and Kings of the Earth you'll probably be okay on that regard. If nothing else, I'd still probably drop Christian Suing Another for Behemoth at the very least. Nebby to grab Behemoth from deck is pretty nasty plus you have another animal for Esau to hunt.

For the Reserve, I think it looks pretty good. I'm not too sold on Philetus. It's a decent chump block if they have high enough numbers but Uzzah will almost always be easier and more consistent except in the rare cases that you use it early and don't have I Am Creator to toss. Either way, banishing your opponent's cards is risky these days. I think Judas would be a better option because that gives you a good block option against AotL and it's in your brigade. Either that or another Good Enhancement and then putting Fifth Seal|Justice Seekers in the main deck.

A final note, if I were using this deck, I would really want to fit Moses in somehow since it only hurts your souls and Gam's Speech if you don't have Peter and Polycarp if you have Moses down first. Between Faith of Samuel, Word of Their Testimony, and the DAEs he's pretty boss.

EDIT:
Opening hand you have I am Creator and no other Heroes. Who is the first Hero you pull? (Granted I know it depends on what GE you start with, but all things being equal I'm curious).
I think you probably go with Angel From the Sun (->Justin->Blood/Word) unless you start with one of the Zeke DAEs, in which case you go with The Watchman.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 11:55:05 PM »
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You mean you don't see the super awesome good Judges enhancement he wants to recur?  ::)
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 01:05:50 AM »
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You mean you don't see the super awesome good Judges enhancement he wants to recur?  ::)
I mean, getting Fire Foxes back would actually be pretty sweet. Maybe you should just add Sword of the Lord and then it would be somewhat reasonable.

EDIT: Now I kinda wanna build a Ruth/Judges T2 with Fire Foxes recursion all day...

EDIT 2: Never mind. Moses is good. Ruth cards are bad.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 02:20:27 AM by KoalaKing »

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2018, 01:35:11 AM »
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No Grail?

Offline Red Wing

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2018, 08:42:55 AM »
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Opening hand you have I am Creator and no other Heroes. Who is the first Hero you pull? (Granted I know it depends on what GE you start with, but all things being equal I'm curious).
That's a good question and it does depend on rest of my hand and even the souls on the table. The main decision in this deck is whether or not it's more beneficial to be a Justin deck or a CwD/Ezekiel deck. So 90% of the time it's going to be either Angel from the Sun or Watchman. If there's soul drought, I obviously go Barnabas.
EDIT:
Opening hand you have I am Creator and no other Heroes. Who is the first Hero you pull? (Granted I know it depends on what GE you start with, but all things being equal I'm curious).
I think you probably go with Angel From the Sun (->Justin->Blood/Word) unless you start with one of the Zeke DAEs, in which case you go with The Watchman.
Yeah, pretty much this.
Quote
I feel like these days every Type 1 deck should be running The Woman with Child in Reserve if not in the main deck so perhaps that would be a good replacement if you didn't already have something in mind. Plus, with Simeon in there she wouldn't have to go in solo for the dom search. That being said, how often do you think you'll be attacking with Peter? I'm not sure if having Peter's CBN Acts Enhancements justifies running Elymas Struck Blind over Overcome. That way you would also have some backup for TWwC if you decide to include her.
Woman with Child would definitely be nice, but I don't think I have a spot for her in main and only Cov. of Prayer could get her out of reserve. I feel like the deck is fast enough that I'm rarely just waiting SoG for the win, which is probably the only situation I attack with her.
As for the enhancement choices, Peter doesn't see much action but it does happen occasionally. The reasoning behind Struck Blind is that it wins the battle outright against an evil battle winner whereas Overcome would simply be a negate. In a deck with a fairly minimal number of GEs, I think that's a big deal. The recursion aspect of Overcome is great, but I already have Ezekiel to get the DAEs back.
Quote
On defense, I've been using Crimson defense for awhile now and found that I'm sorta iffy on Christian Suing Another. I think you're probably better off with Astrologers and Invoking Terror over The Egyptian Rebel and Christian Suing Another. That's a tough call since Rebel pretty nice with both Sapphira and Kings of the Earth, but between Babylon|The Harlot and Kings of the Earth you'll probably be okay on that regard. If nothing else, I'd still probably drop Christian Suing Another for Behemoth at the very least. Nebby to grab Behemoth from deck is pretty nasty plus you have another animal for Esau to hunt.
Suing Another is definitely the least consistent EE in the deck. I'm playing it for two main reasons: 1) it's an evil interrupt that can win a battle 2) the offense and the DAEs can do some neat things in a side battle. I think Rebel is too legit to drop, but I would like Behemoth in here.
Quote
Speaking of Peter, where's the 4D-Coin?

I always find 4D to be one of my first cuts. It's just not consistent enough for me, and in this deck the art slot is quite precious considering CwD or YwR will almost always be up. If I had room for another neutral/support card it would be Patmos.
Quote
A final note, if I were using this deck, I would really want to fit Moses in somehow since it only hurts your souls and Gam's Speech if you don't have Peter and Polycarp if you have Moses down first. Between Faith of Samuel, Word of Their Testimony, and the DAEs he's pretty boss.
I actually have a version of this deck with the three headed monster of Justin/Zeke/Moses. It's a lot less consistent because of the number of brigades involved and my list isn't very polished, but maybe I'll post it anyway...
No Grail?
No room for it unfortunately. And I usually only run Grail in a deck where it serves a specific purpose like Medium shenanigans.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 09:14:05 AM by Red Wing »
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Offline Red

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2018, 02:42:56 PM »
+1
Three-Headed Monster would certainly be better as straight judges.
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Offline Red Wing

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2018, 02:57:58 PM »
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Three-Headed Monster would certainly be better as straight judges.
Agreed. The interplay between Moses and CwD is pretty nice because I basically get to decide whether or not I want souls to work.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2018, 07:18:24 PM »
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Have tried a Zeke/Justin deck some months back; green/white rather than green/clay focused. It's alright but I wouldn't say it's amazing. CwD definitely makes this version. Without it, I would never not use Music Leader with Martyrs. Zeke's recursion is just too slow. :2cents:

Even so, mostly everything's probably going to be obsolete in a couple months anyway. :P
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Offline Red Wing

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Re: The Next Big Thing: Zeke/Justin
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2018, 07:33:47 PM »
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Even so, mostly everything's probably going to be obsolete in a couple months anyway. :P
Would I reveal mah super legit top secret stratz if this weren't the case? ;)
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