Author Topic: Canaanites in T1?  (Read 264 times)

Offline sepjazzwarrior

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2019
  • The best defense is a fast offense
    • -
    • Midwest Region
Canaanites in T1?
« on: January 08, 2019, 10:52:27 AM »
0
Has anyone tried using these guys in T1?  ive never used them but have a deck I want to try that uses them, any advice?  is Tower of Thebez worth is?  Do the Sons of Anak work? Thanks

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11764
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 11:14:51 AM »
0
I think there's a couple decent ways to run Caananites. You can use the small ones (Delegates, Lot's Wife, Lot's Daughters, Woman of Thebez) to get initiative to play things like Gib Trick, Stone of Thebez and Abandonment. Or you can use the Sons of Anak and other giants with lots of negate support. Situational ECs like Sisera and Foreign Wives can go in Reserve to be pulled with the new King of Tyrus, which should be in any Caananite build I think. Also, Baal Worship is a sneaky good card for any defense with a couple Caananites.

I've never seen Tower of Thebez as being that good--most of the time Babel is just as effective and it doesn't hurt you as well.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Josh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3009
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 12:29:19 PM »
0
Canaanites' have CBN battlewinners and, thanks to recent expansions, beefy characters to complement their small ones.  Their main problem has always been speed.  Betrayal, Envy, and that Negate + Draw from FoM might be good enough for drawing, but enhancement-based speed is inferior to character-based speed.

Canaanites do boast the most battle-extenders, I think, of any reasonably-sized T1 defense - Slayer's Glee, Gates of Hell, Sodom/Gomorrah, and possibly Madness as well depending on your Orange splash (which can include Orange Prince of Tyrus).
You had me at Meat Tornado.

Offline Bobbert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1500
  • The player formerly known as Thomas Hunter
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 12:55:09 PM »
+1
Babel + KoT(PoC) + FW in reserve is kinda fun.
The longer everything goes to plan, the bigger the impending disaster.

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11764
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 01:02:57 PM »
0
Their main problem has always been speed.  Betrayal, Envy, and that Negate + Draw from FoM might be good enough for drawing, but enhancement-based speed is inferior to character-based speed.

That's a good point, which is why Canaanites have always been a great pairing with a Judges offense, which has the speed to help any defense get set-up.

While they don't have the character drawing, there is some search speed with the Sons of Anak and Canaan the Cursed.

If you run Amalekites Slave, Deceiver and Darkness LS, you essentially have 4 cards (the fourth being Talmai to start the band) that can get the SoA band turn 1.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Josh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3009
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 01:30:21 PM »
+1
Babel + KoT(PoC) + FW in reserve is kinda fun.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work like you think it does.  Babel counts your opponent's brigades (meaning they have to both own and control the card), not the brigades in their territory (which only means control).  Since they don't own FW, FW doesn't count towards Babel's X.


That's a good point, which is why Canaanites have always been a great pairing with a Judges offense, which has the speed to help any defense get set-up.

While they don't have the character drawing, there is some search speed with the Sons of Anak and Canaan the Cursed.

If you run Amalekites Slave, Deceiver and Darkness LS, you essentially have 4 cards (the fourth being Talmai to start the band) that can get the SoA band turn 1.

Judges also have synergy because Ehud   :P

You can add KoT (PoC) and Og, King of Bashan to the list of Canaanite character search speed.

As to getting the full Sons of Anak combo, I don't like to attempt it without getting the CBN bander first, even if that means I have to wait a few turns to get the whole thing up and running.  Negatable bands leave you vulnerable to blowouts.
You had me at Meat Tornado.

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11764
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2019, 03:05:53 PM »
0
Forgot about Og, he's definitely a big boost for that defense.

Quote
As to getting the full Sons of Anak combo, I don't like to attempt it without getting the CBN bander first, even if that means I have to wait a few turns to get the whole thing up and running.  Negatable bands leave you vulnerable to blowouts.

I think it's situational. I haven't tried a giant defense yet, but I think there would be some instances in which I would be fine not starting with Ahiman (the CBN SoA). For example, if my opponent attacks first and I have at least one negate in my hand, I'd probably go for the whole band if I had the chance. If my opponent attacks first and doesn't do any extra drawing and is just attacking with his opening hand, I might even go for it even without a negate. I also think it's less risky than other negatable bands because all your characters are the same brigade (black) so it's not like my opponent can pick apart the chain and just leave me with a character he knows I have nothing to play on.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Josh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3009
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Canaanites in T1?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2019, 03:54:57 PM »
0
Forgot about Og, he's definitely a big boost for that defense.

Quote
As to getting the full Sons of Anak combo, I don't like to attempt it without getting the CBN bander first, even if that means I have to wait a few turns to get the whole thing up and running.  Negatable bands leave you vulnerable to blowouts.

I think it's situational. I haven't tried a giant defense yet, but I think there would be some instances in which I would be fine not starting with Ahiman (the CBN SoA). For example, if my opponent attacks first and I have at least one negate in my hand, I'd probably go for the whole band if I had the chance. If my opponent attacks first and doesn't do any extra drawing and is just attacking with his opening hand, I might even go for it even without a negate. I also think it's less risky than other negatable bands because all your characters are the same brigade (black) so it's not like my opponent can pick apart the chain and just leave me with a character he knows I have nothing to play on.

Good points.  All 3 sons of Anak have big bodies, so if I have negates in hand and the hero in battle is small, I'll go for the band - even if they negate it, I've still got a good block in the works.  But if I have other good blocking options (say, KoT), I'd probably be willing to try that instead to see if I can get the full band assembled.
You had me at Meat Tornado.