Author Topic: Canaanites!?  (Read 858 times)

Offline Jeremystair

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 923
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Canaanites!?
« on: June 14, 2018, 04:19:59 PM »
0
Does anyone have a Canaanite defense with all of the new FoM cards they are willing to share?

How well do you think Canaanites would do in this meta?

And I know Cumps are King but if we're not talking about just cumps how well do you think Canaanites would do?

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11502
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2018, 04:27:13 PM »
0
The nice thing about Canaanites is that some of the chumps (Foreign Wives, Fire Foxes) fit quite well in a Canaanite defense so you get the best of both worlds.

I don't have a list handy at the moment, but I'm definitely planning to put one together. Brown/Black also looks really good with all the characters that can play either brigade (Jezebel, Abimelech, Canaanite Wives, Foreign Wives).
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Ironisaac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1556
  • Awake from the grave
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2018, 05:23:02 PM »
0
Brown/Black also looks really good with all the characters that can play either brigade (Jezebel, Abimelech, Canaanite Wives, Foreign Wives).

I'm working on a defense like this as well, though I'm not sure I'll be able to finish and post it in time before I leave for 2 weeks. But I will have one ready by July if you are willing to wait till then!  ;D
It's the year of the Mighty men!

Offline Mr.Hiatus

  • Tournament Host
  • *****
  • Posts: 1510
  • Too Legit to Quit
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2018, 06:16:44 PM »
0
Canaanite Wives are reallyyyy good. The thing with Cans is they are a setup type defense that get a huge boost when you get to play 4x Foreign Site and 2x Canaan. So Iran tough in type one because you take away their capture recursion threat which are a huge part of their defensive strategy and defense.

Lot’s Wife
Gib Delegates
Can Wives
Sisera’s Army
Emim
Demetrius
Foreign Wives
Goliath

Seized by Rioters
Gibeonite Treaty
the Wages of Sin
Slayers Glee
Plot to Kill
Idol Worship
Avenged
Lingering in Sodom

3 neutrals here so I would put it with Judges and run Prisoner at gaza as well. But I think it’s not as strong in type 1 because you can’t capture them or utilize a lot of their strengths. It’s not as good as the giant band or Pharisees saduccees and it’s mostly the same enhancements. I like Slayers Glee as an outside of battle block and Lingering Hhelpa with Reserve access but you lose an add to battle plus battle winner especially a CBN on Wives. You can go all Cans with Tower and The Women of Thebez and go that route as well.
Fluff is only good with Peanut Butter.

Offline Jeremystair

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 923
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2018, 08:00:59 PM »
0
Thanks guys! Ironisaac I would like to see it when you finish it even if it is a couple weeks from now.

Offline Ironisaac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1556
  • Awake from the grave
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 02:54:11 PM »
0
Ok, so I don't think this is anywhere near a final version, but it's a start.
1   Sodom & Gomorrah
1   Pit of Dothan (FoM)
1   Asherah Pole

1   Canaanite Wives
1   The Fallen King
1   King Jeroboam I
1   King Ahaziah (PC)
1   King Ahab
1   Demetrius the Silversmith
1   Outsiders (Brown/Crimson) (RoJ)
1   The Deceiver (RoJ)

1   Idol Worship
1   Brothers' Envy
1   Seized by Rioters
1   Darkness (FoM)
1   Daughter's Grief
1   Breaking Jerusalem's Wall (RoA)

Reserve:
1   Foreign Wives
1   Jezebel (RoA)
1   Shrine to Artemis
1   Household Idols
1   Image of the Beast (RoJ)
1   Idols of Canaan


It's pretty big, and I'm not certain the enhancements are the best ones to go with, but I'd say it's a pretty good start. There are a lot of characters who can search for multiple things in multiple locations, and a lot of recursion for a defense. Weakest links are canaanite wives, ahab, and jezebel. they aren't that good, but they do fill important, niche roles, as well as round out the defense a bit.

TFK grabs SaG, PoD, and Asherah Pole from deck, as well as everything from reserve.
Demetrius grabs Asherah pole, Idol Worship, and outsiders from deck, as well as making SbR CBN
Canaanite wives grabs idols from reserve and makes Idol worship and Brother's Envy (if PoD is in play) CBN
King Jeroboam grabs 4 of the 6 enhancements out of deck or discard, which is SUPER amazing. He can only play two of them however, so that's not super amazing.
King Ahaziah grabs the same stuff as Demetrius, but he can also grab demetrius, and he grabs all those out of deck or discard!
King ahab can grab SaG, but he's mostly here for the Asherah pole play first combo.
Outsiders grabs idols from anywhere basically. not much to say here.
Deceiver grabs everyone else from deck/reserve. 
Foreign wives is OP.
And Jezebel is again for the ahab combo, as well as being another trigger for Idol worship, SAG, and Idols of Canaan.

Quick question: Idols of canaan says "limit once" It does not specify once per game, so if it was deactivated for a turn and then reactivated, would you be able to use it again? My understanding of "once" is that if it does not specify "per game" or whatever, that it's basically "once while this card is still in play"
It's the year of the Mighty men!

Offline Josh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2911
  • Formerly known as jmhartz
    • -
    • East Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 03:47:06 PM »
0
Ok, so I don't think this is anywhere near a final version, but it's a start.

I like what you have going on here.  A few comments:

1. Any deck that has Canaanite Wives and FW should probably be running Stone of Thebez.
2. Any deck that has Outsiders (Brown/Crimson) and TFK should probably be running Gideon's Ephod.  Especially if paired with Judges.
3. No Scattered?  But it's...  Scattered.
4. Michal could be a good addition.  TFK searches her out or bands to her.  And her exchange lets TFK basically band to any Brown EC.
There's been a mistake.  You've accidentally given me the food that my food eats.

Offline Ironisaac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1556
  • Awake from the grave
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2018, 04:29:27 PM »
0
V2, same size.

1   Sodom & Gomorrah
1   Pit of Dothan (FoM)

1   Canaanite Wives
1   The Fallen King
1   King Jeroboam I
1   King Ahaziah (PC)
1   King Ahab
1   Demetrius the Silversmith
1   Outsiders (Brown/Crimson) (RoJ)
1   Michal (CoW)
1   The Deceiver (RoJ)

1   Idol Worship
1   Brothers' Envy
1   Seized by Rioters
1   Daughter's Grief
1   Breaking Jerusalem's Wall (RoA)
1   Scattered
1   Stone of Thebez (RoA)

Reserve:
1   Foreign Wives
1   Jezebel (RoA)
1   Household Idols
1   Image of the Beast (RoJ)
1   Asherah Pole
1   Gideon's Ephod
It's the year of the Mighty men!

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • 2018 T1-2P Nationals Champion
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5064
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2018, 04:57:50 PM »
0
V2, same size.

1   Sodom & Gomorrah
1   Pit of Dothan (FoM)

1   Canaanite Wives
1   The Fallen King
1   King Jeroboam I
1   King Ahaziah (PC)
1   King Ahab
1   Demetrius the Silversmith
1   Outsiders (Brown/Crimson) (RoJ)
1   Michal (CoW)
1   The Deceiver (RoJ)

1   Idol Worship
1   Brothers' Envy
1   Seized by Rioters
1   Daughter's Grief
1   Breaking Jerusalem's Wall (RoA)
1   Scattered
1   Stone of Thebez (RoA)

Reserve:
1   Foreign Wives
1   Jezebel (RoA)
1   Household Idols
1   Image of the Beast (RoJ)
1   Asherah Pole
1   Gideon's Ephod


Fairly certain that Demetrius and Seized aren't worth it
Don't sacrifice the permanent on the altar of the immediate

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11502
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 01:38:40 AM »
0
I think Seized is worth it, but Demetrius should be in Reserve.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline bluefrog1288

  • Tournament Host
  • *****
  • Posts: 199
    • -
    • South Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 11:59:34 AM »
0
Good stuff, I am working on this defense right now and will take much of this into consideration.  My defense is currently implementing the giants as well.

Offline Mr.Hiatus

  • Tournament Host
  • *****
  • Posts: 1510
  • Too Legit to Quit
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 12:23:09 PM »
+1
I like how the defense has changed but it’s isnt even a Caananites defense anymore  ;)
Fluff is only good with Peanut Butter.

Offline Asahel24601

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 594
  • #MakeRedGreatAgain
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 12:55:19 PM »
0
I like how the defense has changed but it’s isnt even a Caananites defense anymore  ;)

If you want pure Canaanites, you basically end up running Giants. Og and the brothers can be hard to deal with for a lot of decks. Add Lot's Wife, Goliath for power, and an Outsiders for speed and you've got a pretty strong defense, especially with Wages.

Offline Reth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 549
    • LFG
    • East Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2018, 05:02:37 PM »
0
But how do you deal with initiative when using such a defense as posted here. or the giant one or a any other which comes mostly with big characters (well here at least you have some smaller ones too)?

Online Bobbert

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1427
  • The player formerly known as Thomas Hunter
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2018, 05:32:06 PM »
+1
But how do you deal with initiative when using such a defense as posted here. or the giant one or a any other which comes mostly with big characters (well here at least you have some smaller ones too)?



Devourer, Plot to Kill, Siezed by Rioters, Baal Worship, Foolish Advice. You could even go double redirect with Gibeonite Treaty and Denying Blame; Bringing Fear if you want to bring more Phillies. Throw in the I deck spears and maybe a War to get them back and who cares about init?*


*Disclaimer: going all in on this is probably a terrible idea and should likely only be partially attempted - or at least include a few other battlewinners. Attempt at your own peril.
The longer everything goes to plan, the bigger the impending disaster.

Offline Reth

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 549
    • LFG
    • East Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2018, 05:52:17 PM »
0
Sure but coming back to the listed defense here - my question also referred to that one: How would you deal with initiative with the listed defense? Could not find any interrupt or negate enhancements and only a few small ECs.

Offline Kevinthedude

  • Tournament Host
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
  • Yo
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Canaanites!?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2018, 11:38:30 PM »
0
Sure but coming back to the listed defense here - my question also referred to that one: How would you deal with initiative with the listed defense? Could not find any interrupt or negate enhancements and only a few small ECs.

With the list here that's primarily brown I think it should absolutely be running Stiff Necked (CBN negate and discard an enhancement) and Wickedness of the Tenants (CBP Interrupt and disard a human). If you're playing full black Canaanites then you just run 5-6 interrupts since black has plenty.