Author Topic: Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers  (Read 1844 times)

Offline TimMierz

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Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers
« on: September 30, 2008, 10:41:45 AM »
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Zebulun: 3/3 Hero, "Draw a card. If all of your Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes, Zebulun ignores Evil Characters with toughness greater than the number of cards in your hand."

Silly Women: */* EC, "Character's abilities (*/*) are equal to the number of all Evil Characters in play."

Self: */* EC, "Abilities (*/*) match the abilities of one of opponent’s Heroes in play. If that Hero leaves the field of play, abilities become 0/0."

Question 1:
Zebulun attacks, and the attacker has 5 cards in hand after drawing. There are 5 ECs in play. Can Silly Women block from hand (and then be ignored)?

Question 2:
Zebulun attacks, and the attacker has 5 cards in hand after drawing. Can Self block from hand? If so, can Self copy the 11/8 Simeon in his opponent's territory, or must he choose someone */5 or less (like Zebulun)?

Question 3:
Zebulun attacks, and the attacker has 1 card in hand after drawing. There are no Heroes below */2 in opponent's control. Can Self block from hand?
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Offline TimMierz

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Re: Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 11:36:54 AM »
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Since apparently people are scared away by the ignore questions (and rightfully so), I'll voice my opinions and I can get Aggied.

1. Silly Women is 5/5 in hand, and therefore can enter battle. Immediately upon entering battle, she is 6/6 and is ignored, but since she already entered battle she stays.

2 and 3. I think that Self's toughness while in hand is not greater than the size of the attacker's hand in either case, because it is undefined. Therefore, it can block Zebulun, and from there can choose any Hero to copy, regardless of its toughness.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 12:01:25 PM »
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Tricky questions but I'll bite...

1) Silly Women wouldn't be ignored until she is already in battle blocking.

2 & 3) You don't have to announce the Hero your copying until Self enters play.  At that point he's already in battle.  You can choose any Hero to copy.  You may or may not be ignored depending on the Heroes toughness.
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 01:53:47 PM »
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 +1  with both.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 03:32:54 PM »
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Hey,

I would say that Self has no numbers (similar to how demonic blockade makes sites have no brigade) until it is declared what character he is matching.  As such he does not have a toughness to compare to the number of cards in the opponent's hand until after he is in battle, meaning he is not ignored until he enters battle.

Which then begs the question is Silly Women 5/5 in your hand because her */* is fixed not chosen, or does Silly Women, like Self, have no numbers when she is in your hand because she is */*.  I would suggest that any * or X in an "at face value" location (i.e. draw pile, discard pile, hand) has no numerical value.  Which means not only could Silly Women block in the example in your question, but she could also block if the attacker had 5 cards in hand and there were already six evil characters in play.

This suggestion is made in part from the consideration of a hypothetical ability "Return all Evil Characters of */8 or greater in all discard piles to their owner's draw piles."  And how Silly Women would interact with a card like that.

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Offline TimMierz

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Re: Zebulun and Variable-Toughness Blockers
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 03:40:00 PM »
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I don't think I like your suggestion. It should only be undefined when there's no measure by which to define it. An empty Judge's Seat or an in-hand Self cannot be defined. But a discarded Pride before Calamity or an in-hand Silly Women do have measures by which to determine their numbers; since they're not special abilities, their number clarifications are applicable outside of battle.

This isn't solely hypothetical either. Can Micah return Jethro's Wisdom to deck if the toughness of Heroes is below 5?
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