Author Topic: three woes vs image of beast  (Read 435 times)

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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three woes vs image of beast
« on: December 20, 2018, 11:01:23 AM »
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i have up image of the beast (negate a neutral or good card, cannot be interrupted).  on their turn, my opponent play three woes (negate a neutral or good/evil card, cannot be negated) and selects to negate my image of the beast, to prevent it if I decide to keep it up on my next turn.  does this work?  in this same vein, when it comes back to their turn and they need to reselct a target for 3 woes, does it "blink" giving image of the beast a chance to reactivate cannot be interrupted?

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 11:37:42 AM »
+1
Woes will prevent Image of the Beast if you try to reactivate it next turn.

I think you have one opportunity to declare a target for Image, when it is activated. Since it was prevented at that point, Woes' blink probably allows it to reactivate but it has no target.

Offline Josh

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 03:23:41 PM »
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I think you have one opportunity to declare a target for Image, when it is activated. Since it was prevented at that point, Woes' blink probably allows it to reactivate but it has no target.

Is the Prevent portion of a Negate dependent on the Negate portion?  Or are they simply two abilities that make up one larger ability? 

Seems to me the Prevent portion should still work, although at that point it would only stop the ability from reactivating - it wouldn't do anything to an already active ability.

Otherwise, how would "Negate all" abilities in battle prevent enhancements that are played later in battle?  Those enhancements definitely couldn't be targeted in hand for Negate when the "Negate all" was activated, yet it's always been played that they are Prevented in the future.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 03:25:22 PM »
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I seem to recall that negate was defined as "an instant interrupt and an ongoing prevent", though I can't check the REG at the moment to double check if that's official. By that definition, the prevent still works.
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 04:16:27 PM »
+1
"Automatically targeted" abilities (usually targeting all of something) can update their targets - after an interrupt for instant abilities, as new targets are added for ongoing abilities.

"Manually targeted" abilities (such as Image) don't update their targets.

Because Image is manually targeted, you have to declare a target when it attempts to activate. I think the initial activation being prevented stops you from declaring a target, but it doesn't come up that often.

Offline Watchman

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2019, 11:08:02 AM »
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There was a recent thread about a CBN card not being able to be targeted by an interrupt/negate effect because of this portion of the REG (under Modifiers)

“Since modifiers are not abilities, they cannot be targeted by interrupt, prevent or negate effects.”

In this 3W/IotB thread, wouldn’t this be the same situation since IotB is CBI 3W can’t target it for negate?
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2019, 04:54:57 PM »
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That's not exactly the right quote - that just stops the CBI portion of Image from being negated. It's the definition of CBI (and CBN) that makes the ability of a CBN card not targetable by an interrupt or negate.

"The cannot be interrupted modifier modifies an ability, making it so that the modified ability cannot be targeted by any interrupt or negate effect activated after the card the modified ability is on is played."

I think the previous thread (which was after this thread) was the first indication of a difference in how the rules are worded (you can't target a CBI/CBN ability) vs. how people played them (you can target them but fail).

For the remainder of this season (through Nats), the ruling is that you can't target CBI/N with an interrupt or negate while the CBI/N is active. So you can't use Woes against Image or Censer while they're active, but you can use any of those against Ends of the Earth in territory while it is not CBI.

Offline Watchman

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Re: three woes vs image of beast
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2019, 09:03:50 PM »
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Cool thanks
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