Author Topic: T2 Plot  (Read 638 times)

Offline Bobbert

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T2 Plot
« on: August 07, 2018, 11:52:14 AM »
+1
Had a brief discussion on this at Nats that essentially boiled down to "there should probably be a ruling on that," so let's make sure it gets one.

Say that in T2 I'm running four copies of Plot - two in main deck, two in reserve. If any of these are ripped, how does it impact how I put my deck back together for the next round? Can I just call the ripped one as one of the ones from Reserve? Do I need to keep track if I pulled any from Reserve? Should they be marked so I know where they came from?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 12:01:32 PM »
+1
Gabe and I discussed this (since I was running Plot) and our plan is to make mention of this in the Tournament Guide under the "Haman's Plot" paragraph.

Basically if it's known for certain where the Plot came from you remove it from that (deck or Reserve). If it could have been from either, you can choose from where it gets removed.

Example 1: 2 Plots in Reserve, 2 in deck. You rip one before taking any cards from Reserve therefore it must have been one from deck and it gets removed from deck.

Example 2: 2 Plots in Reserve, 2 in deck. You shuffle a Plot with Gain LS and then draw one and rip it. There's no way to know where it originally came from so you can choose either deck or Reserve.

Example 3: 1 Plot in Reserve, 1 in deck. You have the "deck Plot" in hand, but during battle you grab the other one with Wages of Sin. You play one of them--since they were both in hand, you could choose which one gets removed ("deck Plot" or "Reserve Plot").

Similar to how a negated draw requires an element of trust that the same cards are put back, there will be certain situations where it is up to the player to be honest about the other in which he got them/played them.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 12:23:20 PM »
0
Following the removal of the Plot, the corresponding location (Deck or Reserve) then has a corresponding good card removed also to maintain balance. Correct?

Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 12:26:31 PM »
0
Following the removal of the Plot, the corresponding location (Deck or Reserve) then has a corresponding good card removed also to maintain balance. Correct?

Correct, so you HAVE to make sure your main deck can remove cards per Plots.  Can't run a 100-101 card deck with plot main deck, unless you checked in a second one.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 11:45:10 PM »
0
Following the removal of the Plot, the corresponding location (Deck or Reserve) then has a corresponding good card removed also to maintain balance. Correct?

Correct, so you HAVE to make sure your main deck can remove cards per Plots.  Can't run a 100-101 card deck with plot main deck, unless you checked in a second one.
Is it actually illegal to have one in a 100-101 card deck? I thought you could but you you just can't rip any. So like, I could theoretically run Plot in a 100 card deck with Gallows, right?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 11:52:49 PM »
0
It is not illegal to use a 100 or 101 card deck with Haman's Plot(s) in T2, but if any Plots are ripped then the deck cannot be used for the remainder of the tournament.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 10:36:13 AM »
0
It is not illegal to use a 100 or 101 card deck with Haman's Plot(s) in T2, but if any Plots are ripped then the deck cannot be used for the remainder of the tournament.

Should have clarified a bit more.  You can check on in, but if you rip a plot before the last round, you are DQed.  Let's also be honest, unless you are running Haman's Gallows you plan to rip a plot!   :P

Offline The Guardian

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 10:50:53 AM »
0
Quote
You can check on in, but if you rip a plot before the last round, you are DQed.

You aren't necessarily DQ-ed, but that deck is. If it was the only deck you checked in, then you would be DQ-ed... :P
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Offline Kor

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 08:41:32 AM »
+5
Haman's Plot is the reason I think players should only be able to check in one deck.  Using a Plot should actually be an in-tournament trade-off and not just a financial cost.
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Offline Master Q

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 11:08:46 AM »
0
Haman's Plot is the reason I think players should only be able to check in one deck.  Using a Plot should actually be an in-tournament trade-off and not just a financial cost.

One plot per tournament seems good. That way you can check in more than one deck still without doing 3 of the same.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 12:40:41 PM »
0
Haman's Plot is the reason I think players should only be able to check in one deck.  Using a Plot should actually be an in-tournament trade-off and not just a financial cost.

I mean I've played Haman's Plot about 25 times (using 1 deck) in my last five tournaments  (2 states, 2 regionals and Nationals) and I've only ripped one. Haman's Gallows is a thing  8)
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Offline Kor

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 10:06:37 PM »
0
Haman's Plot is the reason I think players should only be able to check in one deck.  Using a Plot should actually be an in-tournament trade-off and not just a financial cost.

I mean I've played Haman's Plot about 25 times (using 1 deck) in my last five tournaments  (2 states, 2 regionals and Nationals) and I've only ripped one. Haman's Gallows is a thing  8)

Interesting, do you find yourself ending up with them in hand not using them while waiting for Gallows?  Or how do you balance those decisions?

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Online goalieking87

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 10:25:31 PM »
0
Haman's Plot is the reason I think players should only be able to check in one deck.  Using a Plot should actually be an in-tournament trade-off and not just a financial cost.

I mean I've played Haman's Plot about 25 times (using 1 deck) in my last five tournaments  (2 states, 2 regionals and Nationals) and I've only ripped one. Haman's Gallows is a thing  8)

Interesting, do you find yourself ending up with them in hand not using them while waiting for Gallows?  Or how do you balance those decisions?

The one he ripped was against me in T2. There was a slight hesitation, but not a lot.  I was playing a Daniel deck and got a pretty quick setup, so I am thinking he was feeling like he needed to do something before it was too late. I think he got Michael, Daniel and Foretelling Angel if I am not mistaken.

...he won...

The details just to say I think it’s more situational than anything, but when it’s a time that you should play it, don’t worry about Gallows.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 10:57:30 PM »
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Kye is spot on. If he had not gotten off to such a fast start (pretty sure that he had those 3 on his first turn), I probably would have waited to see if I could get Gallows. The irony is I actually drew Gallows on my very next turn. For situations like that one, I was fully ready to let 'er rip without Gallows.

Because 3 of the Plots were in the Reserve, I usually didn't start pulling them out (meaning they weren't taking up hand space) until I had Gallows and instead relied on my main deck defense to stall until the Gallows came out at which point I typically used the Plots to start clearing the way for my endgame attacks.
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Offline Kor

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 11:16:42 PM »
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Nice, I like the idea of keeping them in reserve until needed, and then grabbing them later on (possibly with wages of sin). 
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: T2 Plot
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2018, 05:56:25 AM »
+2
I mean I've played Haman's Plot about 25 times (using 1 deck) in my last five tournaments  (2 states, 2 regionals and Nationals) and I've only ripped one. Haman's Gallows is a thing  8)
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