Author Topic: Stopping The Great Fish  (Read 162 times)

Offline Urijah

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Stopping The Great Fish
« on: June 10, 2019, 07:56:30 AM »
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The Great Fish's ability:
"Negate up to X cards. You may set aside a hero for 3 turns. If you do, shuffle this card after battle."

Assuming the player has chosen to set the rescuing hero aside and that hero is the only hero in battle, would these actions stop the Great Fish?

1) Angel of the Lord would kill the Great Fish but the set aside would still happen, right?

2) Let's say Michael ("Enhancements played with Michael CBN") plays Death of Firstborn ("If used by an angel, interrupt the battle and discard an evil character controlled by each opponent. CBN by an Egyptian.") Would this interrupt the Great Fish's ability? Can you still target it if it's been shuffled, since the battle ended when the only hero in battle was set aside?

3) Would any interrupt the battle work if the only rescuing hero is being set aside, and giving the player Special Initiative to stop the Great Fish's ability?

Thanks.

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 08:19:26 AM »
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Any interrupt the battle would work if your only hero in battle is the target of great fishs set aside ability, if you then discard great fish, his ability cant reactivate and  you dont get set aside

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 09:30:39 AM »
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To further clarify:

1. Correct. The set-aside is an instant ability, so if Great Fish blocks it will already have happened by the time you have a chance to play AotL.

2-3. Let's set up a hypothetical rescue. Player A attacks with Mike. Player B blocks with Great Fish.
-If B chooses Mike as Great Fish's set-aside target, then it creates Special Initiative for A. A can then play Death of Firstborn to interrupt the set-aside and win the battle. Great Fish is discarded and Mike stays in play to rescue a soul.
--If A instead had attacked with Jacob banded to Mike, setting aside either using Great Fish would not create special initiative since there's still a hero left in battle.
-If B chooses any other hero, then no special initiative is created. Since Mike's 12/8 statline beats Great Fish's 0/12, Great Fish would have initiative. If B passes, then if A plays DoF the interrupt will not stop the instant ability of the set-aside.
--If Mike instead plays War in Heaven, it negates Great Fish instead of interrupting it. The negate will undo the set-aside, bringing back whatever hero Great Fish set aside.
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Offline goalieking87

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 09:38:00 AM »
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1. When The Great Fish enters battle, its ability completes before anything else can happen. Choosing the Hero in battle gives special initiative for the opposing player to interrupt and stop (or negate) The Great Fish. Angel of the Lord does not negate The Great Fish, so the Hero would stay set aside.

Them playing AotL effectively means they are giving up that special initiative opportunity to interrupt/negate because they would need to respond to that special initiative before playing any other card than an interrupt/negate that targets the ability removing them from battle (in this case The Great Fish).

2. The battle doesn’t end when the Great Fish activates. Assuming there is only one Hero in battle, once the Hero is targeted to be set aside, the opposing player must respond to special initiative (even before the rest of the ability on the card removing the Hero from battle). If the opposing player chooses not to do so, then the Hero is set aside. However, the battle is still not over. The Great Fish is still in battle and the battle is not over until both players agree. The rescuing player could, for example, play Grapes of Wrath or Vally of Dry Bones to start a new battle or continue the current battle.

Please also note that if there are two heroes at the start of battle and The Great Fish sets one aside, this is not a special initiative situation since their last character is not being removed from battle. In this case, The Great Fish’s ability completes (with the latter part of the ability waiting until the end of battle).  Gameplay then continues based on the rules of regular initiative. There is the possibility that the rescuing Hero doesn’t even get initiative, so you could play another enhancement which would make it a little harder for them to negate The Great Fish.

3. Not necessarily. Cards with interrupt the battle are always paired with another ability. That second part of the ability will determine whether it stops The Great Fish. Interrupt the battle temporarily suspends the ability that gave special initiative but once the interrupt is completed, The Great Fish will try to activate again.  If you interrupt the battle and remove The Great Fish from battle (withdraw, discard, etc) then the ability would be stopped. Just keep in mind that if The Great Fish is the last character you control in battle, that would then give you special initiative to stop the ability removing you from battle (and potentially allowing The Great Fish’s ability to work).

Hope that helps!

That’s a lot of info, so let us know if you have more questions.

Offline Urijah

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish (Day of Fury)
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2019, 03:45:43 PM »
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Okay, I think I've got the Fish's ability down now. Thanks!

While we're on Special Initiative, could you please let me know if this is correct:

Let's say (for the sake of this question) we begin a rescue with a 6/6 Revelation angel with no special abilities, our opponent defends with a 7/7 demon with no special abilities. With clear initiative, we play Day of Fury "If used by Job or a Revelation hero, banish this card to banish all evil characters in battle."

1) Can the blocking demon play an "interrupt the battle and play the next enhancement" targeting Day of Fury? I am thinking no because the target has been banished.

2) Would an "interrupt and discard the last enhancement played in battle" work? Still thinking no for the same reason.

Thanks for the guidance.

Offline 777Godspeed

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2019, 04:11:13 PM »
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Your opponent would get Special Initiative due to the targeted banishment of their Evil Characters.
 
1)They could interrupt and play next as long as the next card would negate Day of Fury.

2)They could interrupt and discard last enhancement played. Last enhancement being Day of Fury.



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Offline Urijah

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2019, 07:30:48 PM »
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But the current REG says "Unless specified, the targets must be on cards in play." Day of Fury is banished at the end of the effect. I would think that it (and the interrupt attempting to be played on evil characters who are banished) would not be an eligible target.




Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2019, 07:42:45 PM »
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The definition of Special Initiative in the Glossary specifically addresses cards that remove themselves from play.

Quote from: REG>Glossary>Special Initiative
When a player is controlling character(s) in battle and a completing effect of an opponent’s ability, or a game rule that has been triggered by an effect of an opponent’s ability, would leave that player with no character in battle when the effect has completed, they have Special Initiative.

When this occurs, suspend the card causing the removal and additional abilities or effects waiting to activate (currently active ongoing abilities remain active). The player with their character(s) being removed has the opportunity to play an Enhancement that will interrupt or negate both the effect causing the removal (or that triggered the corresponding game rule) and the ability containing that effect. If the card with the removing effect was already removed from play due to one of its effects, it may still be targeted during Special Initiative by an Enhancement that specifically targets its card type.

This only occurs once per completion of an effect of an opponent’s ability. If a removing effect is negated (or cannot reactivate after an interrupt effect is played) and the negate (or interrupt effect that prevented reactivation) is later undone such that the original removing effect reactivates, this would trigger a separate instance of Special Initiative.

Offline Urijah

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Re: Stopping The Great Fish
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 07:47:59 PM »
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Ahhh! I missed that part. Thank you for your patience.  ;)

Much appreciated.