Author Topic: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble  (Read 618 times)

Offline Lex1122

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Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« on: July 12, 2018, 08:16:18 AM »
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In prep phase my hidden treasures is negated by three woes. My humble lost soul is in my territory, I enter battle with a lone green prophet and less cards then my opponent. The humble is making my cards CBP during battle so my hidden treasures works now correct?
 
Hidden treasures: Onxe per turn, if your lone green prophet enters battle, you may play an enhancement or discard an evil enhancement in opponents deck.

Humble lost soul: During battle while your opponent has more cards in hand than you, your cards cannot be prevent by opponents cards.

Three Woes: Name a card.Good or Evil or Neutral. Negate that card for a round. (Pretty much)

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 09:57:23 AM »
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Abilities are CBP or not when they activate. Treasures activated in your prep phase and was not CBP and therefore stays that way. The only way an artifact can benefit from humble is if you somehow activate it in battle phase with something like Crimson/Brown Outsiders.

Offline Lex1122

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 11:56:24 AM »
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 Both abilities are during battle abilities. If humble “checks” when I enter  battle who has less cards then makes my cards CBP, isn’t it attaching itself to my cards making HT CBP when it tries to reactivate during battle phase?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 12:02:55 PM »
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HT doesn't "reactivate" during battle phase, it is already active and then gets triggered during battle phase.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 12:12:28 PM »
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so if you RA with Paul, who negates neutral cards, or Samuel, who negates play abilities, do you still get to play off of HT since it was already active and play abilities are CBI?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 12:19:25 PM »
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Paul would negate the entire ability of HT (including the trigger), but that's a good question regarding Samuel (and Ezekiel)...
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 01:00:05 PM »
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so if you RA with Paul, who negates neutral cards, or Samuel, who negates play abilities, do you still get to play off of HT since it was already active and play abilities are CBI?

Play abilities are CBI, however the ongoing trigger on HT that triggers the play ability is not. Paul would negate the trigger before the trigger is triggered.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 01:03:07 PM »
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Paul definitely stops HT.

The Elder team is conferring about Samuel and Ezekiel.
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Offline 777Godspeed

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2018, 01:18:06 PM »
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Was this question about Samuel and Ezekiel cleared up or is it still under discussion/review?

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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2018, 01:35:57 PM »
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Was this question about Samuel and Ezekiel cleared up or is it still under discussion/review?

Godspeed,
Mike

Since both Samuel and Ezekiel's abilities are "Negate play abilities. . . " and their abilities trigger upon entering battle, I feel like it would negate it.  The CBP can still be negated after the fact.  I don't see how this would be any different than me negating a Counsel of Abigail or any other CBP card.  I'm stopping it afterwords, not beforehand.  I'm not an elder, so I'd let them confirm, but I would rule that they negate the play ability, but you could still do the search and discard of HT.

Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2018, 11:53:35 PM »
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Was this question about Samuel and Ezekiel cleared up or is it still under discussion/review?

Godspeed,
Mike

Since both Samuel and Ezekiel's abilities are "Negate play abilities. . . " and their abilities trigger upon entering battle, I feel like it would negate it.  The CBP can still be negated after the fact.  I don't see how this would be any different than me negating a Counsel of Abigail or any other CBP card.  I'm stopping it afterwords, not beforehand.  I'm not an elder, so I'd let them confirm, but I would rule that they negate the play ability, but you could still do the search and discard of HT.
The question was regarding the play ability part that is inherently CBI, not CBP, so it actually makes more sense to me that it be ruled the other way, even that's not how it was intended from a gameplay standpoint.
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Offline Cornel

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 12:33:25 AM »
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Was there a definite answer on Samuel playing off of HT?

Offline Cornel

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2018, 10:53:47 PM »
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I've been reading a few pages and can't figure these rulings out. Try and stay with me. Thanks in advance!

In this thread it was ruled that Hidden Treasures doesn't benefit from Humble lost soul because it isn't activating in battle, it was already active.
HT doesn't "reactivate" during battle phase, it is already active and then gets triggered during battle phase.

The question was then asked if Samuel(ROA) would negate Hidden Treasures or not since play abilities CBI. Answered with
Paul definitely stops HT.
The Elder team is conferring about Samuel and Ezekiel.

Paul would negate the entire ability of HT (including the trigger), but that's a good question regarding Samuel (and Ezekiel)...

Still wondering about Samuel, but also why Paul would be any different then Sam. A few months ago there was a question about cascade negate on hidden treasures in this thread. The question was about Paul negating hidden treasures when banded into battle, but in the end, I think it came down to that the trigger couldn't be negated unless the entire ability could be negated.
You can negate conditions (or at least that's what you interrupt in the Archer/ITB/ETB scenario). BUT, I think you can only negate a condition if you negate all of the dependent effects.
Quote
Negating an ability negates all effects of that ability, unless the negate specifies a type of effect it negates, in which case it only
negates the specified effects.

"Negate draw abilities" (or "negate play abilities") only negates the draw (or play) effect on Throne, not the condition or the other effect. The REG doesn't cover the other side, where you don't (or can't) negate one of the effects (such as "except banding"), which shouldn't negate the condition of an ability where one effect is negated.
Conditions are parts of abilities or modifiers - the condition on Humble is part of the modifier.

So if that is the case it wouldn't matter whether or not it was Paul or Samuel, if hidden treasures is already active in the prep phase then it CBI. So the questions I'm wondering are 1) Is Samuel actually negating HT or is it CBI? 2)If it IS CBI already, why would Paul be different, can he negate a condition without the rest of the ability? 3) If hidden treasures isn't already active and isn't CBI until battle why wouldn't Humble soul work for it? 4) And finally, if it is ruled CBI when Samuel enters battle, what about Throne of David? The reg says fortresses are always active. Thanks again, just looking for some clarification!

fortress from REG: "You may put your Fortresses in your territory (or set-aside area if that is specified on the
Fortress) and it remains there, with the abilities always active."

Hidden Treasures:"Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle, you may play an Enhancement or discard an evil Enhancement in an opponent's deck."

Humble: "During battle, while opponent has more cards in hand than you, your cards cannot be prevented by opponents' cards."

Samuel:"Negate play abilities. You may search deck for King Saul or David and put it in play to draw 2. May band to a male I Samuel Hero. Cannot be negated."

Paul: "Negate neutral cards. Protect N.T. Lost Souls from evil cards. If there is another Hero in battle, you may draw 2. Cannot be negated."
Throne of david: "When your purple brigade King is blocked, if no Evil Character in battle has a weapon, you may draw X cards and play an O.T. purple brigade Enhancement."

Offline kram1138

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Re: Hidden treasures, Three Woes, Humble
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 08:47:26 AM »
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Any updates on this?
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