Author Topic: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord  (Read 286 times)

Offline SignoftheStar

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Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« on: January 08, 2019, 05:27:11 PM »
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Great Multitude- "If you play a lamb icon card, you may negate and banish an evil Enhancement."

If Multitude is being removed from the battle by an Evil Enhancement, am I allowed to drop a good Dominant, such as Angel of the Lord, to negate that Enhancement?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2019, 05:36:06 PM »
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It depends on a couple factors.

First, was Great Multitude negated (or being interrupted) prior to the discard? If so, then you cannot.

Second, is the evil enhancement still in play to be negated? Only enhancements can be played in special initiative. Therefore if I played something like Deceit of Sapphira (Discard all cards in battle) then that must complete before any dominants are played. Once it's complete, it is no longer in play and therefore you cannot play a good dominant to negate it via GM's ability.

However, if I play an EE that discards your GM and that EE is still in play (for example, Corrupt Earth -- "Discard a card") the battle is not over even if GM was the only Hero attacking. Assuming GM's ability was not negated, it is still active and therefore you can play a good dominant and negate the EE (which brings back GM from discard) and thus keep the battle going.
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Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2019, 05:42:50 PM »
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So it's basically like Three Woes where I could drop it to turn off something like Overwhelming Presence (Underdeck all Evil Characters in battle) but not SSS (Banish all Evil Characters in battle to shuffle all Lost Souls in your Land of Bondage.)
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 07:29:51 PM »
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Great Multitude is not CBN, and has an optional effect, so you can only trigger it while Great Multitude is in play. If it mandatory, Guardian would be correct, but we treat them differently.

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 08:41:58 PM »
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It could work the way Guardian describes if GM was withdrawn, correct?
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2019, 09:16:30 PM »
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Sure. I think it also works if it's captured to your LoB, but not your opponent's since it would no longer be in your control.

Offline Josh

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2019, 08:09:11 AM »
+1
Great Multitude is not CBN, and has an optional effect, so you can only trigger it while Great Multitude is in play. If it mandatory, Guardian would be correct, but we treat them differently.

Would it even matter if it was CBN?  I'm pretty sure the rule has always been "Ongoing abilities (that leave play) persist if they are mandatory and turn off if they are optional".  CBN never was a factor.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 01:28:54 AM »
+1
Did Great Multitude used to be a usable card earlier on in playtesting?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 01:55:59 AM »
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Did Great Multitude used to be a usable card earlier on in playtesting?

I don't recall the original ability it started with, but I do remember us wanting to limit pre-block ignore abilities on Heroes. We didn't really expect GM to show up in competitive decks--it was just a unique card (the only angel/human) that we felt deserved a fairly unique set of abilities. We also thought it would make for a fun card to pull in Booster Draft.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 06:50:18 AM »
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Great Multitude is not CBN, and has an optional effect, so you can only trigger it while Great Multitude is in play. If it mandatory, Guardian would be correct, but we treat them differently.

So the CBN makes a difference for optional abilities too?  They can still be triggered?  Does being in territory change this - for example - Priest of Zeus being discarded after an interrupt>D3>play next?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 06:52:57 AM by Kor »
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Offline Josh

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 12:45:35 PM »
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Great Multitude is not CBN, and has an optional effect, so you can only trigger it while Great Multitude is in play. If it mandatory, Guardian would be correct, but we treat them differently.

So the CBN makes a difference for optional abilities too?  They can still be triggered?  Does being in territory change this - for example - Priest of Zeus being discarded after an interrupt>D3>play next?

The rule for ongoing abilities on cards that leave play is simple.

1. Is the ongoing ability mandatory or optional?

     MANDATORY - It lasts until the end of the current phase.
     OPTIONAL - It stops upon leaving play.

Priest of Zeus is TC, and TC characters have their own set of rules.  When a TC character leaves play, regardless of whether it has a mandatory ongoing ability or an optional ongoing ability, it stops immediately upon leaving play.

In your example above, PoZ triggered while it was still in play, but he leaves play (and thus his ability simply turns off) before he gets a chance to activate the triggered ability.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Great Multitude and Angel of the Lord
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 01:35:31 PM »
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Great Multitude is not CBN, and has an optional effect, so you can only trigger it while Great Multitude is in play. If it mandatory, Guardian would be correct, but we treat them differently.

So the CBN makes a difference for optional abilities too?  They can still be triggered?  Does being in territory change this - for example - Priest of Zeus being discarded after an interrupt>D3>play next?

The rule for ongoing abilities on cards that leave play is simple.

1. Is the ongoing ability mandatory or optional?

     MANDATORY - It lasts until the end of the current phase.
     OPTIONAL - It stops upon leaving play.

Priest of Zeus is TC, and TC characters have their own set of rules.  When a TC character leaves play, regardless of whether it has a mandatory ongoing ability or an optional ongoing ability, it stops immediately upon leaving play.

In your example above, PoZ triggered while it was still in play, but he leaves play (and thus his ability simply turns off) before he gets a chance to activate the triggered ability.

Thanks, this was my current understanding, just wanted to make sure as I was confused by some of the replies in this topic.
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