Author Topic: Couple of questions  (Read 6339 times)

Offline Red

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Couple of questions
« on: June 02, 2017, 01:20:54 PM »
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1. The serpent's restrict. Is the serpent's restrict tied to him or to the paralysis? If it is tied to him, could it be negated in territory? If so, why?

2. High priest ananias. If he blocks, then he restricts someone from playing enhancements with a brigade not in battle. Does a multi-color site provide brigades for this purpose? Also, would that restrict DAEs or do they drop the evil brigade when played as good?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 01:28:54 PM »
-1
1.  It's tied to the paralysis.  His paralysis ability can be negated during the battle phase but not afterward.  The hero can be healed, however, in territory by some other means, or the hero can be underdecked or discarded to remove the restrict caused by the paralysis.

2.  A multi-colored site is considered neutral brigade value, so it doesn't count towards a "brigade not in battle", only heroes and enhancements qualify.  It would only restrict DAEs if there were two brigades on the DAE (such as one of the bowls of wrath) if those brigades aren't already in battle.  Once a DAE gets played it's played either to good or evil alignment, so the opposite alignment wouldn't count towards a "brigade not already in battle" if it was played on a hero or villain.
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kariusvega

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2017, 02:11:28 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

Offline Watchman

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 02:20:19 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

How can Serpent's ability be negated in a separate phase (by which cards)?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 02:22:55 PM by Watchman492 »
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 02:22:20 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 02:23:06 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

How can you (which cards) can negate Serpent's ability in a separate phase?

Serpent's restrict ability is ongoing not instant; you can negate it with any card that can target his ability just like any other card.

Offline Watchman

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 02:27:48 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

How can you (which cards) can negate Serpent's ability in a separate phase?

Serpent's restrict ability is ongoing not instant; you can negate it with any card that can target his ability just like any other card.

Yes, you're right.  It is an on-going restrict.  But what specific cards can negate it after the battle phase?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 02:43:05 PM »
+1
To clarify, the restrict is ongoing and can be negated ina later phase by any negate evil card.  The paralysis is instant so that cannot be negated in a later phase.
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Offline Red

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 02:46:17 PM »
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Wouldn't the logical outcome of such a ruling on serpent be that moses from cloud negates it after the phase? Also, if that's the case, two things, everyone has played it wrong, and that makes no sense whatsover.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017, 02:58:37 PM »
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To clarify, the restrict is ongoing and can be negated ina later phase by any negate evil card.  The paralysis is instant so that cannot be negated in a later phase.

If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory?  That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case.  And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's no longer in play?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 03:30:42 PM by Watchman492 »
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2017, 03:12:01 PM »
+1
Quote
If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory?  That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case.  And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's not longer in play?

If The Serpent is out of play (discarded, banished, etc) then it is highly improbably it could be negated. (If The Serpent was set aside I guess it could be negated by something like Golden Censer). However, if The Serpent is sitting in opponent's territory it has an on-going ability that can be targeted by a negate.

Quote
Wouldn't the logical outcome of such a ruling on serpent be that moses from cloud negates it after the phase?

Cloud Moses would negate it if he entered battle or was put in territory after. If Moses was already active in territory then he is only a prevent at that point.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 03:22:29 PM by The Guardian »
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2017, 03:14:37 PM »
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Quote
If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory?  That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case.  And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's not longer in play?

If The Serpent is out of play (discarded, banished, etc) then it cannot be negated. However, if The Serpent is sitting in opponent's territory it has an on-going ability that can be targeted by a negate.

To clarify, the ability doesn't magically become CBN because Serpent left play, it just is functionally so given that it would be extremely difficult or in most cases impossible to target him and by extension his ability if he were not in play, correct?

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 03:20:41 PM »
+1
Correct--thank you for clarifying that.

If there was a dominant that said "Negate the last Evil Character that blocked" then The Serpent could be negated even if discarded or banished.

I doubt we're going to make that card.  8)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2017, 03:22:54 PM by The Guardian »
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 05:13:18 PM »
+1
1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.

I would have to disagree as it's been clarified already that if a card has "X = # of Opponent's Brigades" that counts neutral brigades as the same as good brigades. They are not good cards, they are neutral cards. But neutral brigades function essentially as good brigades. Because Ananias does not specifically say "Good Brigades" then he's checking anything that has a Brigade to be the same as good cards your Opponent is trying to play.
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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 05:18:02 PM »
+1
same reason you can use angelic guidance to search for a silver card, ie a site - ends of the earth, babylon, new jerusalem, etc

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2017, 05:44:46 PM »
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same reason you can use angelic guidance to search for a silver card, ie a site - ends of the earth, babylon, new jerusalem, etc

Silver there refers to two different brigades, silver good and silver neutral. They are still completely separate brigades.

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2017, 05:45:46 PM »
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same reason you can use angelic guidance to search for a silver card, ie a site - ends of the earth, babylon, new jerusalem, etc

Silver there refers to two different brigades, silver good and silver neutral. They are still completely separate brigades.


no, they are the same brigade

you are referring to alignment

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2017, 05:47:43 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.

I would have to disagree as it's been clarified already that if a card has "X = # of Opponent's Brigades" that counts neutral brigades as the same as good brigades. They are not good cards, they are neutral cards. But neutral brigades function essentially as good brigades. Because Ananias does not specifically say "Good Brigades" then he's checking anything that has a Brigade to be the same as good cards your Opponent is trying to play.

DAEs are not neutral when played, they are either good or evil cards depending on what you play them as. Ananias is checking for same brigades, and sites shouldn't count since red on a site isn't the same brigade as red on a good enhancement.

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2017, 05:48:34 PM »
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well neutral brigades do count for high priest, just as stated before they also count for Affliction of Job where x=brigades

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2017, 06:11:00 PM »
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1. Currently The Serpent's ongoing restrict ability may be negated in a separate phase while The Serpent is in play.

2. High Priest Ananias' ability says "with a brigade" specifically, not good brigade, which along with Affliction of Job does count toward brigades in play/battle.

You are right about The Serpent but I would say that neutral versions of a brigade are not the same as their good counter parts, e.g. neutral red is a completely different brigade than good red, therefore brigades on sites in battle would not count as being the same brigade as those on good enhancements for the purposes of HPA's ability.

I would have to disagree as it's been clarified already that if a card has "X = # of Opponent's Brigades" that counts neutral brigades as the same as good brigades. They are not good cards, they are neutral cards. But neutral brigades function essentially as good brigades. Because Ananias does not specifically say "Good Brigades" then he's checking anything that has a Brigade to be the same as good cards your Opponent is trying to play.

DAEs are not neutral when played, they are either good or evil cards depending on what you play them as. Ananias is checking for same brigades, and sites shouldn't count since red on a site isn't the same brigade as red on a good enhancement.

As Kairus is saying, then with cards like Affliction of Job, it would count Netural brigades in addition to the good brigades which is rediculous. DAC/DAE's count as Good and Evil cards in hand/deck/Discard Pile.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2017, 08:16:42 PM »
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Quote
If the restrict can be negated in a later phase what's the target of the negate an evil card, The Serpent in your opponent's territory?  That doesn't make sense to me if that's the case.  And if it's no longer in territory how can you target The Serpent to negate the restrict if it's not longer in play?

If The Serpent is out of play (discarded, banished, etc) then it is highly improbably it could be negated. (If The Serpent was set aside I guess it could be negated by something like Golden Censer). However, if The Serpent is sitting in opponent's territory it has an on-going ability that can be targeted by a negate.

Quote
Wouldn't the logical outcome of such a ruling on serpent be that moses from cloud negates it after the phase?

Cloud Moses would negate it if he entered battle or was put in territory after. If Moses was already active in territory then he is only a prevent at that point.

What's confusing to me is if the serpent's on-going restrict was played in battle, and he wins the battle and goes back to territory after battle phase, by him sitting there he is still targetable for negation of the restrict ability? The ability activated in battle and carries on through the turns, so how can the restrict be negated if the serpent is just sitting there well after the battle phase is over? The restrict isn't contingent upon the Serpent being in play; it's contingent upon the paralyzed hero still being paralyzed...
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kariusvega

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2017, 08:19:47 PM »
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I agree Watchman, as The Serpent is not territory class I do have a hard time understanding how he can be targeted for negate. The only other character I can think of with a similar on going ability that can be negated in territory who is not territory class is Simon the Zealot

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2017, 10:31:37 PM »
+1
I agree Watchman, as The Serpent is not territory class I do have a hard time understanding how he can be targeted for negate. The only other character I can think of with a similar on going ability that can be negated in territory who is not territory class is Simon the Zealot

Leper might be another example, not that you see that played much.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2017, 11:32:02 PM »
+1
Judas is an example of a semi-commonly played one, although he does have CBN so the interaction between it and negates doesn't come up.

Offline megamanlan

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Re: Couple of questions
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2017, 11:57:25 PM »
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Judas is an example of a semi-commonly played one, although he does have CBN so the interaction between it and negates doesn't come up.

Simon the Zealot is one that doesn't have a CBN.
They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

 


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