Author Topic: Cascade Negate Q (Read 1883 times)

Noah · « **on:** June 15, 2018, 11:25:14 PM »

My opponent rescues and I block with a Crimson EC. I have initiative and play Dream. I draw "Lawless", add Wages of Sin to my hand and play Wages off of Dream. I use Wages to search for Treasures of War out of my reserve and, still having initiative, play it and discard it to discard my opponent's You Will Remain. At this point, my opponent and myself are wondering if he plays SoG to rescue and negate "Lawless", does that undo the effects of "Lawless", Wages, and Treasures of War, thus returning You Will Remain to play?

On a related note, if I use "Dull" to search for Uzzah, block with Uzzah, and my opponent plays SoG on "Dull", what happens?

If you can't tell, I really don't like cascade negate and wish that it didn't exist.

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:10:43 AM »

Quote from: Noah on June 15, 2018, 11:25:14 PM

My opponent rescues and I block with a Crimson EC. I have initiative and play Dream. I draw "Lawless", add Wages of Sin to my hand and play Wages off of Dream. I use Wages to search for Treasures of War out of my reserve and, still having initiative, play it and discard it to discard my opponent's You Will Remain. At this point, my opponent and myself are wondering if he plays SoG to rescue and negate "Lawless", does that undo the effects of "Lawless", Wages, and Treasures of War, thus returning You Will Remain to play?

Unfortunately, yes. Wages would stay on the table since the play ability can't be interrupted but it would be negated.

Quote from: Noah on June 15, 2018, 11:25:14 PM

On a related note, if I use "Dull" to search for Uzzah, block with Uzzah, and my opponent plays SoG on "Dull", what happens?

If you can't tell, I really don't like cascade negate and wish that it didn't exist.

SoG can't rescue the soul because Uzzah is protecting it. If SoG was somehow RoP, uzzah would be negated, go back into deck, and opponent would get a walkin.

^{#CascadeDelendaEst}

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:27:07 AM »

I interpreted that as underdecking Wages (presumably) then playing Treasures of War under normal init, but otherwise I agree with Kevin.

I think the question on Dull was whether negating Dull cascades to negate Uzzah before SoG rescues, which would negate the protection. Since the cascade is part of the negate completing, it should negate the protection prior to the rescue.

Noah · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:37:20 AM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on June 16, 2018, 12:27:07 AM

I interpreted that as underdecking Wages (presumably) then playing Treasures of War under normal init, but otherwise I agree with Kevin.

Yes, that is what I meant to say.

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on June 16, 2018, 12:27:07 AM

I think the question on Dull was whether negating Dull cascades to negate Uzzah before SoG rescues, which would negate the protection. Since the cascade is part of the negate completing, it should negate the protection prior to the rescue.

Yes, that was the intent of that question.

The Guardian · « **Reply #4 on:** June 16, 2018, 01:37:39 AM »

I agree with Aggie. Uzzah would go back to deck and the artifact would be returned to where it came from.

Watchman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 16, 2018, 08:59:39 AM »

But SoG would not be able to rescue Dull since Uzzah’s ability already completed and protected Dull from rescue, thus no cascade negate is in order. How do you come to the conclusion that Uzzah is cascade negated? If Dull was negated by some other means (Three Woes), then the cascade would work. Is this what you’re referring to, Aggie and Guardian?

Jeremystair · « **Reply #6 on:** June 16, 2018, 09:03:05 AM »

Son of God negates first undoing the search for Uzzah and then win's the lost soul. Do you get it now?

Watchman · « **Reply #7 on:** June 16, 2018, 09:07:07 AM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on June 16, 2018, 09:03:05 AM

Son of God negates first undoes everything and then when's the lost soul. Do you get it now?

I understand how cascade works but SoG cannot insert itself between abilities. If my opponent uses Dull, searches for Uzzah, and if I right then and there play SoG BEFORE he blocks with Uzzah then Uzzah goes back and there was no protection in the first place. But if he blocks with Uzzah before I play SoG I can’t play SoG while Uzzah’s ability is resolving. And once it resolves the protection is already in place so now I can’t rescue Dull with SoG, so cascade negate is a moot point.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2018, 09:14:54 AM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on June 16, 2018, 12:27:07 AM

I think the question on Dull was whether negating Dull cascades to negate Uzzah before SoG rescues, which would negate the protection. Since the cascade is part of the negate completing, it should negate the protection prior to the rescue.

Once the Son of God is played after Uzzah's ability completes because the Son of God is a two-part ability the first part being a negate which can target the dull souls ability even if it's protected. The Cascade happens right then putting uzzah back in the deck and then the Son of God wins the dull Soul that is no longer protected.

The Guardian · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2018, 09:20:51 AM »

Correct^

Cascading doesn't wait for other abilities to resolve.

Watchman · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2018, 09:32:43 AM »

Ok that’s what I was missing, the negate part being separate first before the rescue part. Thanks!

SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:28:11 PM »

These questions being so frequent are what keep me from attempting to make a comeback strongly into T1 and just collecting and playing sealed. So many of this situations seem to take place in the game now.

Watchman · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:32:01 PM »

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on June 16, 2018, 12:28:11 PM

These questions being so frequent are what keep me from attempting to make a comeback strongly into T1 and just collecting and playing sealed. So many of this situations seem to take place in the game now.

It’s not that bad. If you take about 3+ years to learn the rules you’ll be ready to play at a basic level by then.

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:32:14 PM »

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on June 16, 2018, 12:28:11 PM

So many of this situations seem to take place in the game now.

It's just growing pains caused by the higher general quality of the game highlighting an outdated system. It may be a while but I'm confident eventually that cascade negate will be removed and the number of those threads will drop off dramatically.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2018, 12:33:34 PM »

Yeah once you realize the number one rule of redemption, you don't know the rules it gets easier from there. 😁

SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx · « **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2018, 09:35:17 AM »

Quote from: Watchman492 on June 16, 2018, 12:32:01 PM

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on June 16, 2018, 12:28:11 PM
These questions being so frequent are what keep me from attempting to make a comeback strongly into T1 and just collecting and playing sealed. So many of this situations seem to take place in the game now.

It’s not that bad. If you take about 3+ years to learn the rules you’ll be ready to play at a basic level by then.

Well I haven't hit the 3+ year mark yet hehe. I'm sure that I'm not ready for even basic play in T1 lol.

Watchman · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2018, 11:01:17 AM »

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on June 18, 2018, 09:35:17 AM

Quote from: Watchman492 on June 16, 2018, 12:32:01 PM
Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on June 16, 2018, 12:28:11 PM
These questions being so frequent are what keep me from attempting to make a comeback strongly into T1 and just collecting and playing sealed. So many of this situations seem to take place in the game now.

It’s not that bad. If you take about 3+ years to learn the rules you’ll be ready to play at a basic level by then.
Well I haven't hit the 3+ year mark yet hehe. I'm sure that I'm not ready for even basic play in T1 lol.

Yes you are. You play sealed so you’re ready for T1 again. You just gotta dive in, practice so you are familiar with the rules, and read excerpts from the REG as needed.

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Author Topic: Cascade Negate Q (Read 1883 times)

Noah

Cascade Negate Q

Kevinthedude

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RedemptionAggie

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Noah

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The Guardian

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Watchman

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Jeremystair

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Watchman

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Jeremystair

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The Guardian

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Watchman

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SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx

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Watchman

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Kevinthedude

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Jeremystair

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SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx

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Watchman

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