Author Topic: Tournament play #2  (Read 1306 times)

Offline Jeremystair

  • Trade Count: (+19)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Tournament play #2
« on: June 30, 2018, 09:47:06 PM »
0
It's perfectly fine to lock a post but deleting my comment unnecessary. But I see how it goes now I know why JD sold off all of his cards. Cheating is cheating no matter how small or how big and no matter how much it impacts the game it's still cheating and you should be disqualified! As Christians we can't just sin a little and think that that's okay. No matter how big or small the sin we still have to ask for forgiveness and repent. The answer that I got from my question was as long as it didn't affect how the game ended it doesn't really matter that someone cheated. That's like saying it doesn't really matter how you live your life sin as much as you want as long as on your Deathbed you repent so you can go to heaven.

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2018, 10:02:22 PM »
0
First:

That wasn't even remotely what was said.

Second:

That's not the argument you presented in your deleted post, which was just a cheap potshot, which is why it was deleted.

Third:

You were sent a pm explaining why said comment was deleted, but if you want to make things public I can roll with that too.

Fourth:

Not sure why you feel the need to keep bringing JD into things, since it's barely tangentially related to the topic at hand.

Fifth:

Roy was copied on said PM and I'll let him handle things from here
www.covenantgames.com

Offline Jeremystair

  • Trade Count: (+19)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2018, 10:10:16 PM »
-2
My post that was deleted was sarcasm. I wasn't trying to replicate what I said because that would have just been deleted as well. It sounds like as long as you don't get caught or if it doesn't impact the game it's okay to cheat and I disagree. I just wanted everyone to understand that it seems kind of odd that 2 elders think this. They might not have said it that way but they sure did imply it. I don't want to be at any tournaments that they are judging if they are judging this way.

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12343
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2018, 10:22:17 PM »
0
When the integrity of a game has been compromised, the first priority should be to make things right and fair for all involved without further compromising the integrity. In a multi-player game, which is the situation you described, removing a player could give one of the opponents an unfair advantage, which is why I gave that answer. Given a different situation, I might believe it would be warranted to immediately disqualify the player. The point is that the rulebook and tournament guide cannot possibly cover every single nuance of a game therefore the judge(s) may give warnings or disqualify at their discretion.

Cheating is always wrong, but if the impact is minimal then I believe a warning is sufficient and preferable to completely disrupting the game.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Jeremystair

  • Trade Count: (+19)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2018, 10:26:56 PM »
0
I totally understand what you're saying but you're not following the rules of the tournament guide. You shouldn't be worried about the Integrity of the game if the tournament guide says different. You should just follow the rules as they're laid out in the tournament guide. Maybe if the judge deems that it might mess up the game you could restart the game with all of the players except the one that was cheating that would make it fair.


Quote from: Tournament Guide

Any player found deliberately cheating will be eliminated immediately from the tournament.
-
A player repeatedly found cheating at a
Redemption tournament may be banned from attending future sanctioned
tournaments at the discretion of Cactus Game Design Inc.
-
All questioned concerning deliberate cheating shall be handled according to John 7:51.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 10:31:37 PM by Jeremystair »

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12343
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2018, 10:52:15 PM »
0
You didn't quote the entire relevant section of the tournament guide.

Quote
Any violation of rules deemed deliberate (such as taking to much time during a turn, or intentionally losing a game) can result in a warning or a forfeiture of a game.

Any player found deliberately cheating will be eliminated immediately from the tournament.
-
A player repeatedly found cheating at a
Redemption tournament may be banned from attending future sanctioned
tournaments at the discretion of Cactus Game Design Inc.
-
All questioned concerning deliberate cheating shall be handled according to John 7:51.

The tournament guide outlines two types of situations: rule violations and cheating.

IMO, the situation you described falls under a rules violation and per the tournament guide a judge would have the discretion to give a warning. If you disagree with that, that's fine, but it's a matter of opinion.

If a player did something like taking a card from their Reserve and adding it to their hand without using an ability, that would be a clear example of cheating.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 11:07:20 PM by The Guardian »
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Jeremystair

  • Trade Count: (+19)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2018, 11:01:13 PM »
0
I left that part out because I thought we already established that it was deemed deliberately cheating.

Quote
Quote from: Kevinthedude on Today at 07:32:27 PM
Quote from: Jeremystair on Today at 07:20:25 PM

Is it deliberately cheating to pick up the top card of your deck and look at it just because you want to?

Yep.

Quote from: Jeremystair on Today at 07:20:25 PM
Can you at any time look at the top card of your deck without any special ability allowing you to do so?

Nope.

Quote
From you!
"I absolutely agree with the first two points."

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12343
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2018, 11:05:20 PM »
0
I should have clarified that while I agreed it was wrong, I believed it fell under the first category.
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Jeremystair

  • Trade Count: (+19)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
    • LFG
    • Southeast Region
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2018, 11:10:33 PM »
-1
Let me get this straight so you believe that looking at the top card of your deck when you're not really supposed to that's not cheating that's some violation?

Quote
from: Jeremystair on Today at 06:10:52 PM
So would you consider that deliberately cheating?

Quote
From Gabe

"If it was done deliberately"

I'm guessing that Gabe wasn't referring to cheating either huh

It's okay when we make mistakes to just admit to them. Instead of trying to find a way around what we said either it's cheating or it's not I believe that it's cheating!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 11:13:12 PM by Jeremystair »

kariusvega

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2018, 11:15:52 PM »
+2
i mean honestly it's unfortunate how easy it is to "cheat" in redemption(mostly due to not even actually knowing the rules).. which is probably in many cases not intentional cheating at all.. i've personally witnessed and experienced this myself simply by not knowing the extremely complex rules! part of which does make redemption unique and interesting.. two sided coin.

a warning should be presented first in all cases. whoever is playing in a tournament isn't there for no reason and obviously knows someone good.

the relationship is more important than the game. there is no sense in burning a bridge because you want to rule someone. that's why i took what happened at the last nationals so personally.. i was ruled to be cheating without warning from shuffling some way that i don't even know and still haven't been explained what that was about.

i sold my cards because it's too easy to make simple mistakes in this game and want to see an app. the app will eliminate all forms of cheating period. i play on lackey because there is a log so you can't even cheat. ps i would still like to see the video from nationals with an explanation as to what was considered cheating in the way i have always shuffled.. but i hope i don't get banned again for asking  :P -please save reason for ban and post thanks

Offline MrMiYoda

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+135)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3463
  • Be a tournament host NOW!
    • -
    • South Central Region
    • Imitation of Christ!
Re: Tournament play #2
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2018, 01:09:54 AM »
0
Peace all.

This thread has reached its maturity.

All other questions please course via PM.

Blessings of prudence and love to everyone.
"Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace." --- Francis of Assisi

 


SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal