Author Topic: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)  (Read 4449 times)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #150 on: June 13, 2019, 03:58:16 PM »
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I think it still needs to be based on points due to ties and time-out games where players can get partial points. If I have 4 full wins and 3 time out losses, that's still 15 points which has historically been enough to be in the running for top cut depending on differential.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #151 on: June 13, 2019, 04:26:14 PM »
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I think it still needs to be based on points due to ties and time-out games where players can get partial points.
You can do points if you want (although X-2 or better just sounds more prestigious :P). I just wanted to agree with your contention that having a fixed criterion up front is a great idea.

Offline TheHobbit

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #152 on: June 14, 2019, 12:20:21 PM »
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A more serious suggestion here...

I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top. Why not just expand top cut to 16 regardless of attendance? Then someone could probably 3 lose or timeout win, depending on the numbers, and still top. There are going to be so many talented players this year playing the game at (arguable) it's competitive pinnacle. I do like Justin's proposition but ironically it favors cookie cutter decks that win in 10 minutes more than a top cut of 16 like Josiah suggested early (let's face we will have over 100 for type 1!).

These are all great ideas. I am glad this thread has not diverged into flame wars- besides a few passive aggressive -1's- but rather refining ideas!

Offline Red

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #153 on: June 14, 2019, 04:15:24 PM »
+2
A more serious suggestion here...

I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

There is a (less than ;)) 0% chance that you will have more than 16 players will meet this criteria, so one additional play-in round for the lowest-ranked players may be necessary.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top. Why not just expand top cut to 16 regardless of attendance? Then someone could probably 3 lose or timeout win, depending on the numbers, and still top. There are going to be so many talented players this year playing the game at (arguable) it's competitive pinnacle. I do like Justin's proposition but ironically it favors cookie cutter decks that win in 10 minutes more than a top cut of 16 like Josiah suggested early (let's face we will have over 100 for type 1!).

These are all great ideas. I am glad this thread has not diverged into flame wars- besides a few passive aggressive -1's- but rather refining ideas!
16 players would have been exactly half the field in Texas. Since I've not yet chimed in, I'm personally more in favor of a scaling cut based on attendance. So if nationals garnered 60+ in T1-2P, I'm more in favor of a top sixteen or all x-2s make cut, but if the attendance is between 30-40, then the cut cannot exceed eight players, and arguably even that number causes problems if even one game goes to a weird time-out scenario.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #154 on: June 14, 2019, 05:04:56 PM »
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I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top.
I think you are missing the point. In Justin's list for the past X years there have been a bunch of people with 2 losses (15 points after 7 rounds) that did not make the cut. This is a way to ensure that none of those players get knocked out of the top cut because of tie-breaker junk. Get to 15 you are in.


Offline The Guardian

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #155 on: June 14, 2019, 05:18:12 PM »
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Correct. I'm not sure about declaring a point total prior to the tournament starting though. For example, if something like this happens:

Player 1: 18
Player 2: 18
Player 3: 18
Player 4: 15
Players 5-10: 14

Then we don't want to just have a top 4 cut. Instead we would cut at 14 points (so 10 players), have the 7 v 10 and 8 v 9 "bye round" and then create the Top 8 bracket from there.
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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #156 on: June 15, 2019, 09:21:31 AM »
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I think Justin has it right. Just state up front that any player with 2 losses or fewer in Swiss (X-2) will make the cut. That lets every player know exactly what they need and no tie-breaker would needed.

Basically, people already know that you cannot lose more than two to top.
I think you are missing the point. In Justin's list for the past X years there have been a bunch of people with 2 losses (15 points after 7 rounds) that did not make the cut. This is a way to ensure that none of those players get knocked out of the top cut because of tie-breaker junk. Get to 15 you are in.
I understand why doing Swiss (X-2) and top cut is useful but I am saying having a larger cut at smaller attendance than you should is basically the same. In Justin's list the cut was smaller and they would have topped under the proposed change. I worry that being too transparent upfront will effect how people play after they have lost, something like cheating for good and letting their friends win. Personally I really doing both together Justin said.


16 players would have been exactly half the field in Texas. Since I've not yet chimed in, I'm personally more in favor of a scaling cut based on attendance. So if nationals garnered 60+ in T1-2P, I'm more in favor of a top sixteen or all x-2s make cut, but if the attendance is between 30-40, then the cut cannot exceed eight players, and arguably even that number causes problems if even one game goes to a weird time-out scenario.
[/quote]

Why not top 16 at 60+ AND X-2?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 09:29:28 AM by TheHobbit »

Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: The 25th Redemption CCG National Tournament (01-03 Aug 2019, TN)
« Reply #157 on: June 15, 2019, 11:27:19 AM »
+4
Alright everyone,

I finally posted a link to the "official hotel."  It is the same one we have used the last 2 times everyone came here for National.  You get a pretty good rate for all 3 days, and it is reserved under Chris Redemption.

The pre-registration should be up in the next day or two.  I'm having some people look at it and register to make sure I haven't missed anything before releasing it to the masses!