Author Topic: Anyone familiar with mechanics of chaining and spell speed in ygo?  (Read 215 times)

Offline The Schaefer

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Title basically says it all. I'm very familiar with mtg's stack system and rules but am less familiar with ygo. I'm mostly interested in learning some of the more in depth mechanics of ygo's chain system (i.e. spell speed and what actions are chainable and not and how that affects abilities). I'm looking at this primarily to compare Redemption's current rule system with both ygo and mtg and see the complexities of each.

Ultimately I think for the future simplification of the rules of Redemption is likely necessary so reflection on this seems like a proactive measure.

Offline Master Q

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Re: Anyone familiar with mechanics of chaining and spell speed in ygo?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 09:46:23 PM »
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I am familiar with the basics and what is fair game to play in certain scenarios. But I'd go to megamanlan on the forums about anything advanced because he actually plays YGO.

I know at least there are normal spells, normal traps, quick play spells, and counter traps. Normal spells are slowest (and most monster effects) at 1. Traps and quick play spells are 2. Counter traps are 3. Some monster effects can be speed 2.

Chaining effects is like Redemption's battle phase and playing Enhancements. You might start by playing a speed 1 normal spell (or, say, Drawn Sword; a battlewinner GE). Then, your opponent has the opportunity to respond, but they can only play something with a speed 2 or higher; ie a quick play spell, trap, certain monster effects, or a counter trap. In Redemption these would be interrupts. The opponent then has the option of playing something of equal speed or higher. If speed 3 is played, then only speed 3 can respond. There is nothing like this in Redemption.

YGO you can chain just about anything if you follow the speeds. It goes by the last card played, then checks if the card played before that resolves after it does, and so on until you check if the original effect resolves after all that. You don't have to negate the card to chain to it- For example, the opponent plays Call of the Haunted (continuous trap that special summons from the GY and keeps the monster out while either is face up). You could chain MST (quick spell that destroys a spell or trap) to destroy the CotH, thereby destroying the monster. However, you would still get the monster's effect since MST didn't negate CotH's activation. At least, this is how I've always understood it.

If I explained it poorly... someone else can probably do it better. I haven't played in years or even at a high level at all. :P

It's basically Redemption initiative, only some cards cannot be played in response to others for being 'slower'. A big difference would be that if you played an interrupt + band in Redemption and Redemption followed some sort of speed rules, the banded character's ability might not activate if it was 'slower' than speed 2 or 3 (but, again, there isn't a speed 3 in Redemption).
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 09:51:58 PM by Master Q »
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Offline The Schaefer

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Re: Anyone familiar with mechanics of chaining and spell speed in ygo?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 10:05:05 PM »
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Makes sense to me. Ill probably still probably look into it a little further for more technical descriptions in terms of rules lawyering but simple explanations are good.  Just being familiar with the spell speeds and how you know what speed they are is a big help. Spell speed 4 I know exists too for cards like Super Polymerization if I remember right but I'm a bit hazy as to why/how. I follow a bit of the competitive scene but haven't played years or competitively either. MTG I did play competitively and had a level 2 judge in my tight-knit playgroup so at least i'm pretty good there.

Offline Isildur

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Re: Anyone familiar with mechanics of chaining and spell speed in ygo?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 02:19:53 AM »
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Like MasterQ explained chaining and Redemption's initiative system are pretty similar.

Personally... I find the stack and other systems like it to make more sense and to be easier to follow... but the initiative system and chaining allow more back and forth gameplay.

Part of the reason the stack works as well as it does in MTG Standard (and to a certain extent in Modern) is that the set designers now intentionally design sets with the stack in mind. So nothing too complicated is ever released and nothing that breaks the rules of the stack is released. This all gets thrown out the window with Legacy as this includes many cards designed before the stack was set in place and is just a monstrosity of a category.

If you go further back into CCG, TCG and LCG history there are other similar systems. I can't remember off the top of my head how Netrunner (Rest in peace...) handled "initiative" issues but they also had a system in place which allowed for a lot of back and forth gameplay. Most games keep things simple though and keep the "interrupting" of other players interactions to a minimum.

I always found the "response" system in Decipher games to be nice and simple, while also allowing interaction between players and battles. Always reminds me of early Redemption.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 02:23:00 AM by Isildur »
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