Author Topic: Pagan Markings  (Read 1302 times)

Offline Watchman

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Pagan Markings
« on: June 20, 2018, 02:07:06 PM »
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To continue the Lev. 19 pagan practices of the Canaanites, which God told Israel they are not to partake in, Tattoos is one EE I wanted to create for a while.

Tattoos have long been (even in contemporary times) a practice of pagan religions/the occult so as to inherit the power of a being (usually an animal or spirit being).  I once saw a documentary how contemporary monks in SE Asia tattoo people who wish to have a connection to a certain being, such as a tiger (or protection from them).  A monk would tattoo a tiger on the person, then lay his hands on the tattoo and impart the "spirit" of the tiger (obviously, a demonic spirit).  Then, at certain ritual ceremonies, the monks would make an incantation, at which time the people who received tattoos in this manner from the monks began to transform and display the characteristics of the animal or being that was tattooed on them.  It was very obvious the person was no longer in control of themselves based upon the behavior they displayed, and their bodily actions were inhuman. 

Tattoos are also more commonly associated with people who live a rebellious, edgy, or questionable lifestyle.  Many people who become believers and receive the Holy Spirit often, it not always, have a transformed view of their tattoos and typically regret getting them as when they received them it was usually during a bad time in their lives, or they didn't like what the tattoo now represented.

So, based upon the negative spiritual ties to tattoos it's obvious why God directed Israel not to tattoo themselves.  Hence, the creation of an evil enhancement.

- It's rainbow because of how it spans across all walks of life with all types of cultures and nationalities.
- It's TC so it can be a placed enh, and only placeable on a human, for obvious reasons.
- The self-protection of the card represents the virtual permanency of tattoos, making it harder for the card to be removed from the evil human.
- It activates only when the evil human enters battle, and only when there's a magician or an evil prophet in play.  The evil human must have an evil "spiritual connection" in order for the ability to activate, represented by those who practice divination and false prophesy
- The copy ability is the meat and potatoes of this card.  Since people who receive tattoos typically identify with the symbol of the tattoo, and that usually being an animal or spirit being, the evil human can copy the SA of any non-human in play.  This has wide-ranging effects.  Some of these affects are limited and won't work, such as if the SA is specific to a certain card (such as Red Dragon's protection from humans ability), while others have great effectiveness, such as Lions' human discard ability, Abaddon's abilities, or Death's hand size ability.

I thought about limiting the scope of the copy ability to something like a discard, band, take, or negate ability, but as I was looking at potential targets it seemed to be more messy this way instead of just copying an entire ability.  I also thought about making it CBI, which would help the protect ability more and also make sure the copy ability has the most potency, but I thought the CBI may be a bit too powerful depending on what Tattoos is copying (such as Prince of this World's ability). 

What're your thoughts?  Should the copy ability be limited or remain as-is?  Should the ability be CBI?  Any other suggestions?  Constructive feedback is always welcome!

Side-note:  I thought that the background color was a very close match to the background of the actual image, making it look like a full art card.  :)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 06:25:47 PM by Watchman492 »
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Offline jbeers285

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 02:12:12 PM »
+1
Jesus has a tattoo.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 02:20:37 PM »
+2
While I have not done any research into the topic, my gut feeling is that the tattoos mentioned in that passage refer to those specifically associated with pagan practices. I've seen people with tattoos that have nothing to do with anything pagan (even Christian symbols such as the cross and the Ichthys fish), and I don't see a problem with those. I understand some may see that as "picking and choosing" Scripture, but that's between God and I, not them.

As such, I wouldn't be comfortable with Redemption taking the stance that tattoos are inherently evil. I could maybe get on board with using a card name such as "Pagan Tattoos," (similar to how we have "Pagan Sacrifices" because sacrifices in and of themselves are not good or evil), but my general thought (and the decisions we've made with other potentially controversially concepts *cough* Nephilim *cough*) is that we leave the tattoo issue as neutral (if we can adequately represent that, great, if not then we don't make a card with that concept).
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 02:20:44 PM »
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Jesus has a tattoo.

If you're referring to Revelation 19:16 "And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:  KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS" then that's a common response I've heard from folks who say it's referring to a tattoo, but actually it's not.  It says "written," which is not the same as tattooed (the Greek word for written is clear that it's a written word and not in the manner of a tattoo), which involves puncturing the flesh and blood-letting.  Jesus also didn't and wouldn't commit anything that violated the Torah, which was a requirement of Him being the sinless Messiah.  Tattoing was clearly a pagan practice when you read it in context of the other practices in Lev. 19:26-29.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 02:22:22 PM »
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While I have not done any research into the topic, my gut feeling is that the tattoos mentioned in that passage refer to those specifically associated with pagan practices. I've seen people with tattoos that have nothing to do with anything pagan (even Christian symbols such as the cross and the Ichthys fish), and I don't see a problem with those. I understand some may see that as "picking and choosing" Scripture, but that's between God and I, not them.

As such, I wouldn't be comfortable with Redemption taking the stance that tattoos are inherently evil. I could maybe get on board with using a card name such as "Pagan Tattoos," (similar to how we have "Pagan Sacrifices" because sacrifices in and of themselves are not good or evil), but my general thought (and the decisions we've made with other potentially controversially concepts *cough* Nephilim *cough*) is that we leave the tattoo issue as neutral (if we can adequately represent that, great, if not then we don't make a card with that concept).

Pagan Tattoos is cool, or maybe Ritualistic Tattooing.  Something along those lines.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 02:37:19 PM »
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Aside from the tattoo debate, having a single placed enhancement that simply makes your dude protected from everything is kinda busted.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 02:39:51 PM »
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Aside from the tattoo debate, having a single placed enhancement that simply makes your dude protected from everything is kinda busted.

I think the card was meant to protect itself, not the bearer, but I can see how it might be interpreted that way.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 02:42:40 PM »
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Aside from the tattoo debate, having a single placed enhancement that simply makes your dude protected from everything is kinda busted.

I think the card was meant to protect itself, not the bearer, but I can see how it might be interpreted that way.

Ah that makes much more sense. I certainly like the copy ability.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 02:45:09 PM »
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While I have not done any research into the topic, my gut feeling is that the tattoos mentioned in that passage refer to those specifically associated with pagan practices. I've seen people with tattoos that have nothing to do with anything pagan (even Christian symbols such as the cross and the Ichthys fish), and I don't see a problem with those. I understand some may see that as "picking and choosing" Scripture, but that's between God and I, not them.

As such, I wouldn't be comfortable with Redemption taking the stance that tattoos are inherently evil. I could maybe get on board with using a card name such as "Pagan Tattoos," (similar to how we have "Pagan Sacrifices" because sacrifices in and of themselves are not good or evil), but my general thought (and the decisions we've made with other potentially controversially concepts *cough* Nephilim *cough*) is that we leave the tattoo issue as neutral (if we can adequately represent that, great, if not then we don't make a card with that concept).

Pagan Tattoos is cool, or maybe Ritualistic Tattooing.  Something along those lines.

Perhaps "Pagan Marks." IMO, it would be better to just leave the word "tattoo" out of the title.
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Offline jbeers285

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 02:46:15 PM »
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My comment was totally in jest. If that didn't come across my apology.
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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 02:58:18 PM »
+3
I know a pastor who got Leviticus 19:28 tattooed on himself lol.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Tattoos
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 03:24:49 PM »
+3
I personally think tattoos are a case of Romans 14:13-15 - they're not banned since we're not under the Mosaic Covenant anymore, but don't let someone stumble because of them. That said, I do agree that calling an evil card a generic "Tattoos" is just asking to turn people away.


As for the actual card, I dig it. Play it off Jambres for CBN.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Pagan Markings
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 07:11:33 PM »
-1
I changed the card title.  I also reworded the protect ability to make it more specific to the protection of the Enhancement.

Please understand I did not make this card as a dig at those within the Redemption community, to other believers, or people overall who have tattoos.  I made it in regards to the pagan customs that God told Israel not to partake in and the spirit behind what those practices represent (just like the cuttings card I made). 

In regards to the issue of Christians getting tattoos of crosses or fishes or what have you, consider this:  Just because Christians do this doesn't mean they should do it.  And just because something is generally accepted by Christians doesn't necessarily make it right either, no more than when Aaron made a golden calf and said "Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD" (specifically using God's name, YHWH) and attributed worship of the calf to the very God who said not to make idols or worship him in such manner. 

I understand how some believers may be zealous and get a tattoo out of their zeal, but I believe some of them do this out lack of knowledge.  What seems right in our own eyes doesn't mean it is right in God's eyes.  When I look at the tattoo scripture, particularly in context with the other scriptures describing pagan customs, and I look at what tattoos typically represent and the spiritual connection to them I believe that God gave Israel that commandment for a specific reason(s), and that as followers of God we should take heed to it.  As believers, would we participate in the other customs named with the tattoo custom:  eat blood, practice divination/soothsaying, disfigure our hair and beards in a ritualistic manner, cut our flesh for the dead, or prostitute our daughters?  I don't think so.  So why would we want to continue a practice that has clear ties to occultism, defilement of our flesh, and blood-letting? This is a custom of the world.  And if the world is doing it, and doesn't know or give regard to God, why should we follow the same way as set-apart sons and daughters of God?

I don't condemn believers who got one, or those who got them prior to becoming a believer.  I don't condemn non-believers for doing it either.  My wife has a medium-sized tattoo and I married her knowing this because I love her and she's a new creation in Christ and the fact that she has a tattoo is a moot point to me.  She got it about 10 years ago during her rebellion years, as she called it, and regrets getting it, particularly as a Spirit-filled believer.  I have in-laws and close family members who have them and I love them without even thinking about their tattoos.  However, I do encourage believers (not unbelievers, because they're not under the same standard) who are considering getting one to reconsider it based upon the aforementioned reasons, and to examine their motive/reason in getting one before making a decision that's virtually a permanent one.

My thought, and my heart is I'd rather err on the side of obeying God's commandment than to think it's okay for me to justify something or think it's okay for me to do it. 

For further perspective on this topic, I'd encourage the reading of William Sudduth's book "What's Behind the Ink? The Spiritual Aspects of Tattooing, Piercing, and Other Fads."  He further explains the spirit behind tattoos and the experiences he's had as a deliverance minister in ministering to folks who have them and what those people experienced, negatively, as a result of getting them.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 11:13:27 PM by Watchman492 »
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Re: Pagan Markings
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 07:47:34 PM »
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Preachy new card ideas rock. :P

Offline bluefrog1288

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Re: Pagan Markings
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 08:54:31 PM »
+1
The law of expediency. 

I applaud you for standing up for what you believe in. I also agree with you.

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Pagan Markings
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 10:27:02 AM »
+3


(not trying to stir up more discussion on tattoos, just had a funny card idea based off this)
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Pagan Markings
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 04:00:53 PM »
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Love the card! In keeping with the Magician theme of gathering their charms and goodies.
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Offline TheHobbit

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Re: Pagan Markings
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2018, 04:26:32 PM »
+2
(Image removed from quote.)

(not trying to stir up more discussion on tattoos, just had a funny card idea based off this)

Your version of silver looks funny  ;)
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