Author Topic: Genesis Cards (More to be added)  (Read 2679 times)

Offline Arrthoa

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Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« on: July 07, 2015, 12:49:05 PM »
0
Destroying Angels
Silver 8/5
If you control a human Genesis hero, you may negate and discard a Site and all evil cards on it. Lost Souls return to land of bondage and captured heroes there return to Owner's territory. Cannot be Negated if a Canaanite is in play.
Same reference.


Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 10:00:27 AM »
+2
So I am guessing that Arrthoa didn't anticipate the (more to be added) cards would be spoilers for a set three years later but here is the first spoiler for the day that will come from Genesis. What do you think of...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Offline goalieking87

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 10:10:05 AM »
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Eh...

As long as Isaac is in the deck or reserve, it’s probably fine. Nothing too exciting though IMO (not every card needs to be).

Hopefully there are still “more to be added”?

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 10:34:58 AM »
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It allows Isaac to be kept in reserve in an Abraham deck, since Abraham can still search for and band to this guy. That said, if you want Isaac in main deck the only reason to run this guy is the star ability, since anything you'd run in that deck that can tutor this guy (namely Abraham) can tutor Isaac just as easily. Since you're normally running Winds and Shur anyway, I'm not sure how often this guy makes the cut. Happy to be proven wrong, if anyone else has any points.

On a somewhat related note, any word on whether star abilities will be able to activate off natural draws as well as opening hand?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 10:38:35 AM by Bobbert »
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 10:48:54 AM »
+3
On a somewhat related note, any word on whether star abilities will be able to activate off natural draws as well as opening hand?

It seems very likely that star abilities will activate off of the initial draw 8 as well as your draw 3 at the start of each turn. Many were originally designed to work specifically at the start of the game (draw eight) and have been retooled to function appropriately if drawn at the start of a turn.
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 11:02:56 AM »
+4
How about this dual-brigade and dual-testament good enhancement...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Offline Ironisaac

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 11:07:56 AM »
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How about this dual-brigade and dual-testament good enhancement...

Spoiler (hover to show)


Love it! Abe can finally get some more banding action going!
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Offline Asahel24601

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 12:13:05 PM »
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How about this dual-brigade and dual-testament good enhancement...

Spoiler (hover to show)


I really wanna use this for an Abram's Army shenanigans deck at some point. More ways for a (maybe CBI) battle winning hero to be banded in.

Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 12:49:36 PM »
+2
Keeping in them with Abraham's story and it foretold God's ultimate plan...

Spoiler (hover to show)
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 01:12:34 PM »
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Keeping in them with Abraham's story and it foretold God's ultimate plan...

Spoiler (hover to show)


I’m glad to see cards in this set that can get animals from the Reserve.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 01:47:49 PM »
+2
Speaking of animals.

Spoiler (hover to show)
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 02:09:35 PM »
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Speaking of animals.

Spoiler (hover to show)


I like that the “site guard” ability is making a come back. However, this character just feels weird being an evil character. I’m thinking it should be a dual-alignment good enhancement and evil character, if anything.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 03:13:29 PM »
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It's interesting to me how we seem to be going back and forth on sites. CoW and RoJ seemed to be very anti-sitelock, with Ends in particular standing out as the ultimate punish for attempting to hide souls in sites. FoM had a couple sites that reward placing captured characters in them (Pit of Dothan and Sodom & Gomorrah, and their companion enhancements Brother's Envy and Lingering in Sodom). Now we have Majestic Heavens, Nineveh, and now Ram that are incentivizing placing souls in sites again. Are we just confident enough in Ends and other access cards that we're willing to print good sites again?

That aside, I love this card. Great design on both aspects.


This Isaac focus also makes we wonder if we're going to see a new Rebekah.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 03:16:31 PM by Bobbert »
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Offline Reth

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 03:49:02 PM »
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Will repeat my question from here (which has not yet been answered):
Why are all these animals ECs in terms of biblical perspective? Reason for my question: See my other post - these animals have been sent and used by God to fulfill his plan. So why are they ECs?

Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 03:59:30 PM »
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Will repeat my question from here (which has not yet been answered):
Why are all these animals ECs in terms of biblical perspective? Reason for my question: See my other post - these animals have been sent and used by God to fulfill his plan. So why are they ECs?

The short answer is because the games creators have chosen to represent animals through Evil Characters and good Enhancements (sometimes both).
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Offline Reth

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2018, 04:01:16 PM »
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Thanx Gabe. That's fine for me.

Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2018, 04:01:45 PM »
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I was going to quote the REG to prove why animals are evil but this is our current definition of a Hero:

Quote
Heroes are cards with a cross in the icon box. Heroes represent characters in the Bible who
follow and serve God and His Plan. The primary goal of Heroes is to rescue Lost Souls.

If anything, this lines up with what Reth just said. Perhaps we need to tweak the definition to say "people" or "humans" instead of "characters".

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 04:54:35 PM »
+2
Deviating a little from Abraham's story for the last 2 previews of the day:

We teased this cards eventual reprint last year:

Spoiler (hover to show)

And of course we can't print that without also printing this:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Covenant with Death. That is all.

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 05:00:53 PM »
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Those are both pretty great cards, especially with Hiding in FoM. Always being able to find an enhancement seems pretty good.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 06:14:41 PM »
+1
For reference purposes our list we used for testing “the dreamer” is Genesis 37-50 cards are Joseph’s Silver Cup, Storehouse, Pharaoh’s Prison, Pit of Dothan, Seven Years of Plenty, Seven Years of Famine, Hiding Joseph’s Cup, Joseph, Coat of Many Colors, Reuben, Judah, Dan, Asher, Zebulun, Midianites Slave, Benjamin, Buying Grain, Jacob’s Grandsons, Forgiveness of Joseph, Journey to Egypt, Reuben’s Torn Clothes, Joseph Before Pharaoh, Egyptian Magicians, Joseph in Prison, Brother’s Envy, Wild Beast, Dream, The Dreaming Pharaoh, Potiphar, Egyptian Warden, Potiphar’s Wife, Egyptian Wise Men, Pharaoh’s Baker, Pharaoh’s Cupbearer and a few other cards that probably don’t matter.
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Offline Kor

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 07:18:18 PM »
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Deviating a little from Abraham's story for the last 2 previews of the day:

We teased this cards eventual reprint last year:

Spoiler (hover to show)

And of course we can't print that without also printing this:

Spoiler (hover to show)
.

Like the cup, just wish it could be activated on a son of Jacob.  New Benjamin maybe?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 07:43:04 PM »
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Like the cup, just wish it could be activated on a son of Jacob.

 +1
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Offline Reth

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2018, 01:33:35 AM »
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I was going to quote the REG to prove why animals are evil but this is our current definition of a Hero:

Quote
Heroes are cards with a cross in the icon box. Heroes represent characters in the Bible who
follow and serve God and His Plan. The primary goal of Heroes is to rescue Lost Souls.

If anything, this lines up with what Reth just said. Perhaps we need to tweak the definition to say "people" or "humans" instead of "characters".
"Humans" would be too restricting since we also use angels as heroes.

Regarding Joseph’s Silver Cup:
Would it be possible then to start a Battle Challange and if opponent declines I can DC JSC to capture a Son of Jacob from territory to opponent's LoB in order to get a free rescue?

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2018, 01:40:45 AM »
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Regarding Joseph’s Silver Cup:
Would it be possible then to start a Battle Challange and if opponent declines I can DC JSC to capture a Son of Jacob from territory to opponent's LoB in order to get a free rescue?
It wouldn't be a free rescue. The opponent has the chance to present an EC until one enters battle or the battle enters battle resolution.

Offline Reth

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2018, 01:57:11 AM »
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Regarding Joseph’s Silver Cup:
Would it be possible then to start a Battle Challange and if opponent declines I can DC JSC to capture a Son of Jacob from territory to opponent's LoB in order to get a free rescue?
It wouldn't be a free rescue. The opponent has the chance to present an EC until one enters battle or the battle enters battle resolution.
Even if opponent declines the BC he can present an EC later on after JSC was used? Really?

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2018, 02:31:18 AM »
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Regarding Joseph’s Silver Cup:
Would it be possible then to start a Battle Challange and if opponent declines I can DC JSC to capture a Son of Jacob from territory to opponent's LoB in order to get a free rescue?
It wouldn't be a free rescue. The opponent has the chance to present an EC until one enters battle or the battle enters battle resolution.
Even if opponent declines the BC he can present an EC later on after JSC was used? Really?
Yes. If you used something like Writ/Charms/CM to get rid of the first Hero before you blocked and the rescuer added another Hero, you could still block. Same idea.

I think we just don't want the manner of declining to matter so much. "This is a battle challenge, do you have a way to create a LS" doesn't decline the block, it just points out the situation.

Offline Reth

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2018, 02:58:47 PM »
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Did not get it entirely yet. In my example only one Hero enters the battle and stays in battle - same single Hero.
Battle begins as a battle challange and after decline turns in a rescue attempt while still the same Hero is in place.
REG battle challange does not tell anything related to a BC becoming a RA.

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2018, 03:04:58 PM »
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My understanding is that choosing not to block isn't actually an action. If I say I'm not going to block, it isn't me committing to anything, it's just letting you know that nothing's going to happen if you leave your hero in battle. If circumstances change (i.e. a soul is generated), I can change my mind and present a blocker.
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2018, 03:26:29 PM »
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In choosing to not block a battle challenge, the battle ends. That is the way it functions for Taunt as well. If the character being taunted looses or denies the taunt battle, the battle is over. There is not a space after a battle challenge is offered and denied in which an action can take place.

Offline Reth

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2018, 03:56:48 PM »
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In choosing to not block a battle challenge, the battle ends. That is the way it functions for Taunt as well. If the character being taunted looses or denies the taunt battle, the battle is over. There is not a space after a battle challenge is offered and denied in which an action can take place.
This makes sense.

Offline Josh

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2018, 04:26:13 PM »
+1
In choosing to not block a battle challenge, the battle ends. That is the way it functions for Taunt as well. If the character being taunted looses or denies the taunt battle, the battle is over. There is not a space after a battle challenge is offered and denied in which an action can take place.

Is this codified in the REG?  I've always played it (and seen it played) that a player can play a card (say, Harvest Time) after a battle challenge is declined, at which point the opponent can then choose to block.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2018, 04:30:20 PM »
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Is this codified in the REG?  I've always played it (and seen it played) that a player can play a card (say, Harvest Time) after a battle challenge is declined, at which point the opponent can then choose to block.

This was my understanding as well and is pretty much crucial for Ends to work as soul gen.

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2018, 04:31:10 PM »
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In choosing to not block a battle challenge, the battle ends. That is the way it functions for Taunt as well. If the character being taunted looses or denies the taunt battle, the battle is over. There is not a space after a battle challenge is offered and denied in which an action can take place.

Is this codified in the REG?  I've always played it (and seen it played) that a player can play a card (say, Harvest Time) after a battle challenge is declined, at which point the opponent can then choose to block.

That's how I was taught or learned at some point. I've never really questioned it.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2018, 04:39:36 PM »
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In choosing to not block a battle challenge, the battle ends. That is the way it functions for Taunt as well. If the character being taunted looses or denies the taunt battle, the battle is over. There is not a space after a battle challenge is offered and denied in which an action can take place.

Is this codified in the REG?  I've always played it (and seen it played) that a player can play a card (say, Harvest Time) after a battle challenge is declined, at which point the opponent can then choose to block.

That's how I was taught or learned at some point. I've never really questioned it.

This makes the most sense anyways. If the defender declined to block, the attacker may end up deciding to add Ends for soul gen. He wouldn’t be required to add Ends immediately after he attacked, since a site can be added to battle at anytime during the battle. And battle resolution doesn’t occur until all players agree it does. If the attacker chose to withdraw his hero from battle after the BC was declined, that effectively ends the battle phase.
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2018, 09:19:14 AM »
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That doesn't really make sense. In order for there to be a battle in the first place there must be opposing characters in said battle. Here is what the 4th edition rulebook says:

Quote
Battle Phase – Follow these steps in order:

a. You may begin a rescue attempt or battle
challenge by placing one Hero into the Field
of Battle. When the Hero enters battle,
activate its special ability (its owner reads
the card and follows the directions). If you
make a rescue attempt or battle challenge,
go to step b. Otherwise, skip to the Discard
Phase.

b. Your opponent may block your Hero by
placing one Evil Character into the Field
of Battle. When the Evil Character enters
battle, activate its special ability (its owner
reads the card and follows the directions).

c. Check for initiative (see Determine
Initiative p. 15). The player with initiative
may play an enhancement (or pass if
allowed). Repeat this step as necessary.

d. Resolve the rescue attempt or battle
challenge (battle resolution). Note that
Dominant cards cannot be played here.

1 End of battle (no more enhancements
can be played)

2 Discard characters in battle that are
defeated

3 if the Evil Character is defeated,
transfer a Lost Soul (if there is one)
from the blocker’s Land of Bondage to
the rescuer’s Land of Redemption

4 Return surviving characters to
territory; discard enhancements in the
Field of Battle.

Ends would have to be put into battle initially and Harvest Time would need to be played before battle IMO based on the above entry. Player present hero. If no Evil Character is presented then steps B and C are skipped to step D in which no Dom's can be played.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 09:24:53 AM by uthminister [BR] »

Offline Gabe

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2018, 09:39:02 AM »
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I'm not sure the 4th edition rulebook alone is sufficient to make a case. It was written in simple form to make learning easy. I'm certain there was no way to generate a LS in that deck once a Hero started a battle challenge so that wouldn't have been addressed there. So I went back to the someone defunct 10th Anniversary (G/H) rulebook which is from around the time I was taught. I don't see any provision there either to play cards after the BC is declined. Based on both rulebooks, here's my best assessment of the order of operations:

1- Issue a battle challenge by presenting a Hero.
2- You may play Dominates, add a Site to battle, or trigger other instant effects. (this is your only window to turn the BC into a RA if they decline)
3 - Opponent chooses whether or not to block.
4 - If they do not block you proceed immediately to battle resolution where you can no longer use the effects from step 2 to turn the BC to a RA.
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2018, 12:37:11 PM »
+2
Let's get back on track with the Genesis spoilers with this remake of an old card...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Oops, wrong image...

Spoiler (hover to show)

And another Genesis spoiler that is a remake of this old card...

Spoiler (hover to show)

I give you the new Eve's Descendant...

Spoiler (hover to show)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 01:29:07 PM by uthminister [BR] »

Offline Bobbert

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2018, 02:46:13 PM »
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MOAR add to battle!
Seriously, on that topic, it'll be interesting to see how cards like this impact the meta. YWR goes in most decks, and there've been a few other cards with that kind of ability (Faith of Dave, Boaz's Sandal, Japheth's Wife), but now that a wider variety of decks are getting them it'll be interesting to see how many battles turn into just pushing in reinforcements.

That small change to Eve's Descendant made it much better. I dig.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2018, 03:01:56 PM »
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but now that a wider variety of decks are getting them it'll be interesting to see how many battles turn into just pushing in reinforcements.

Most likely resulting in more timed-out games.  :D
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2018, 03:05:42 PM »
+1
but now that a wider variety of decks are getting them it'll be interesting to see how many battles turn into just pushing in reinforcements.

Most likely resulting in more timed-out games.  :D

All the more recent add to battle (or battle extender) cards have been for offense, which makes me think fewer games would time out.
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 03:06:50 PM »
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but now that a wider variety of decks are getting them it'll be interesting to see how many battles turn into just pushing in reinforcements.

Most likely resulting in more timed-out games.  :D

All the more recent add to battle (or battle extender) cards have been for offense, which makes me think fewer games would time out.

Except Unknown Nation  ::) But that doesn't count because the old one did too ;)
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Genesis Cards (More to be added)
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2018, 03:16:05 PM »
0
I’m guessing the purple brigade for Eve’s Descendant was for the disciples theme? I’m surprised clay didn’t make the list of brigades. It’d be cool to be a quad-brigade enh.
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