Author Topic: Expansion Submissions Discussion (Read 9908 times)

Korunks · « **Reply #25 on:** September 16, 2011, 06:08:46 PM »

Quote from: JSB23 on September 16, 2011, 05:56:05 PM

I'm going to say this right now,
I'm against anything that makes silver a stand alone.

1. Most of the cards now only target humans, making angels incredibly powerful
2. Chamber of Angels an insanely infuriating card to play against
last (and most important)
3. It doesn't make any biblical sense. The main job of angels is to intervene on behalf of humans, there's no biblical case where angels act on their own.

I never understood the beef some of you all have against angels as a Stand Alone.

1. Stand Alone angels would not be that strong against Demons or even a Demon splash.and Teching for both would be difficult.

2. No argument there, but adding counters for it would not be that difficult.

3. There are several accounts in the Bible of GOD sending angels to intervene without interacting with a human(Basically the Angels fought on there own). Angels have directly acted independently(of humans that is) several times in the old testament and to ignore that completely in the game doesn't seem right. Should they be a predominate theme? No. Should they at least be playable standalone? IMHO yes.

JSB23 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 16, 2011, 06:34:35 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on September 16, 2011, 06:04:46 PM

Quote from: JSB23 on September 16, 2011, 05:56:05 PM
there's no biblical case where angels act on their own.
I think the angel who slaughtered all those Assyrians did so by himself.

He was intervening on behalf of Hezekiah

Quote from: Korunks on September 16, 2011, 06:08:46 PM

3. There are several accounts in the Bible of GOD sending angels to intervene without interacting with a human(Basically the Angels fought on there own). Angels have directly acted independently(of humans that is) several times in the old testament and to ignore that completely in the game doesn't seem right.

*Citation needed

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #27 on:** September 16, 2011, 06:41:41 PM »

Quote from: JSB23 on September 16, 2011, 06:34:35 PM

Quote from: Korunks on September 16, 2011, 06:08:46 PM
3. There are several accounts in the Bible of GOD sending angels to intervene without interacting with a human(Basically the Angels fought on there own). Angels have directly acted independently(of humans that is) several times in the old testament and to ignore that completely in the game doesn't seem right.
*Citation needed

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=1&v=1&t=KJV

theselfevident · « **Reply #28 on:** September 16, 2011, 06:42:13 PM »

Any thoughts on these as Doms:

The First Seal. Revelations 6:2 “Search Deck for any dominant”
The Second Seal. Revelations 6:4 “Holder may initiate 2 battles this turn. Only one lost soul maybe rescued this turn.”
The Third Seal. Revelations 6:5 “You may shuffle lost souls from your territory or place lost souls from opponent’s deck in to that opponent’s land of bondage so that each player has an equal # of lost souls in play”
The Fourth Seal. Revelations 6:7-8 “Discard all characters in each players’ territory including yours”
The Fifth Seal. Revelations 6:9 “Return all NT heros from each players discard to play”
The Sixth Seal. Revelations 6:12-14 “Discard all sites and fortresses in play”
The Seventh Seal. Revelations 8:1 “Negate a Dominant card played by your opponent this turn except Son of God.”

edited

JSB23 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 16, 2011, 07:06:14 PM »

Third, Fourth, and Sixth are OP.

The rest are underpowered and would never get played.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #30 on:** September 16, 2011, 07:22:21 PM »

The main problem with making angels good on their own is I don't see a way to do it without making them OP. The only reason they're not broken right now is that it's hard to use them without other strats mixed in. Think about it, they have 2 FbtN Heroes that are bigger than all the others, a CBN Angel who can hold a play-first weapon, an ITB+win enhancement, 3 multiple band enhancements (one of which brings in all of the opponent's EC's), an Hero that searches for an Enhancement at no cost, a Hero that takes the opponent's evil doms out of the picture, a perpetual recursion fortress that is difficult to target (and the main card that does target it is in a theme that Angels slaughter), Protection of Jerusalem, a CBN band to anyone with a 3 turn cost, and they're difficult to target.

Korunks · « **Reply #31 on:** September 16, 2011, 10:30:40 PM »

Quote from: JSB23 on September 16, 2011, 06:34:35 PM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on September 16, 2011, 06:04:46 PM
Quote from: JSB23 on September 16, 2011, 05:56:05 PM
there's no biblical case where angels act on their own.
I think the angel who slaughtered all those Assyrians did so by himself.
He was intervening on behalf of Hezekiah

That doesn't mean that he didn't enter combat alone? I think you and I are using different definitions of "Acting on their own". I am referring to any time the angels did something directly to effect the enemies of GOD, as opposed to them simply encouraging humans to do a task.

Quote from: JSB23 on September 16, 2011, 06:34:35 PM

Quote from: Korunks on September 16, 2011, 06:08:46 PM
3. There are several accounts in the Bible of GOD sending angels to intervene without interacting with a human(Basically the Angels fought on there own). Angels have directly acted independently(of humans that is) several times in the old testament and to ignore that completely in the game doesn't seem right.
*Citation needed

Let's see:

Daniel 10:13
2 Kings 19:35(already mentioned)
The Story of Balaam (quite a few verses)

The point is GOD sent these angels to do a task, and they did it. How is that not them taking action?

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 16, 2011, 07:22:21 PM

The main problem with making angels good on their own is I don't see a way to do it without making them OP. The only reason they're not broken right now is that it's hard to use them without other strats mixed in. Think about it, they have 2 FbtN Heroes that are bigger than all the others, a CBN Angel who can hold a play-first weapon, an ITB+win enhancement, 3 multiple band enhancements (one of which brings in all of the opponent's EC's), an Hero that searches for an Enhancement at no cost, a Hero that takes the opponent's evil doms out of the picture, a perpetual recursion fortress that is difficult to target (and the main card that does target it is in a theme that Angels slaughter), Protection of Jerusalem, a CBN band to anyone with a 3 turn cost, and they're difficult to target.

I agree it would be trick, but I never said it would be easy

Just that I don't think its wrong.

Quote from: theselfevident on September 16, 2011, 07:03:42 PM

The seven Seals as Dominants:

The First Seal. Revelations 6:2 “Search Deck for Son of God or New Jerusalem”
The Second Seal. Revelations 6:4 “Holder may initiate 2 battles this turn. Only one lost soul maybe rescued this turn.”
The Third Seal. Revelations 6:5 “You may shuffle lost souls from your territory or place lost souls from opponent’s deck in to that opponent’s land of bondage so that each player has an equal # of lost souls in play”
The Fourth Seal. Revelations 6:7-8 “Shuffle all characters in each players’ territory including yours”
The Fifth Seal. Revelations 6:9 “Return all NT heros from each players discard to play”
The Sixth Seal. Revelations 6:12-14 “Discard all sites or fortresses in play”
The Seventh Seal. Revelations 8:1 “Negate a Dominant card played by your opponent this turn except Son of God.”

My main beef with this is the first one. I have always been taught that the first rider of Revelation was the Antichrist not Jesus. Plus a CBN search for arguably the strongest 2 cards in the game I also don't like.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #32 on:** September 16, 2011, 10:36:56 PM »

There's also Michael fighting Satan, Michael fighting the Princes of Greece and Persia, and Michael probably fighting Hitler.

theselfevident · « **Reply #33 on:** September 16, 2011, 11:11:53 PM »

Quote from: theselfevident on September 16, 2011, 07:03:42 PM

The seven Seals as Dominants:

The First Seal. Revelations 6:2 “Search Deck for any Dominant”
The Second Seal. Revelations 6:4 “Holder may initiate 2 battles this turn. Only one lost soul maybe rescued this turn.”
The Third Seal. Revelations 6:5 “You may shuffle lost souls from your territory or place lost souls from opponent’s deck in to that opponent’s land of bondage so that each player has an equal # of lost souls in play”
The Fourth Seal. Revelations 6:7-8 “Shuffle all characters in each players’ territory including yours”
The Fifth Seal. Revelations 6:9 “Return all NT heros from each players discard to play”
The Sixth Seal. Revelations 6:12-14 “Discard all sites or fortresses in play”
The Seventh Seal. Revelations 8:1 “Negate a Dominant card played by your opponent this turn except Son of God.”

My main beef with this is the first one. I have always been taught that the first rider of Revelation was the Antichrist not Jesus. Plus a CBN search for arguably the strongest 2 cards in the game I also don't like.
[/quote]

Fixed, as I was not necessarily trying to interpret the book of Revelations as I am no expert.

megamanlan · « **Reply #34 on:** September 17, 2011, 03:01:15 AM »

The Seals cannot be taken as Doms, it's a misinterpretation of the game.

As for my LS, looking at the LS from RoA/FooF and Di how can u say they are OP?

Also Angels DO preach the gospel in Revelation! Rev 14:6:
Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— (Revelation 14:6 NKJV)
Now tell me that there is another Everlasting Gospel and what it is?

JSB23 · « **Reply #35 on:** September 17, 2011, 06:47:43 PM »

I can say they're OP because they are.

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Rejoicer)
Rev. 11:10
If a Hero is Discarded this turn, Protect this Lost Soul from Rescue.

Almost impossible to rescue in T2

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Fearer)
Rev. 6:16
Each time an Evil Dominant is played, search Discard Pile for a Site. If this Lost Soul is in a Site and an Good Dominant is played, Shuffle up to 3 Lost Souls in sites into Deck.

Makes Far Country obsolete, gives Samaria reduction an unneeded boost, Techs well with heretics.
No.

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Torture)
Rev. 9:6
While this Lost Soul is in play, Humans cannot be Discarded. Protect this Lost Soul from rescue by a Hero with reduced Abilities.

This + Uzzah/Creeping Deceiver/ Sabbath breaker... the list goes on and on.
Also boosts Samaria reduction.

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Worshipper)
Rev. 13:4
While a Demon or an Idol is in play, Protect this card from Rescue by a Dominant. Holder may Discard a Orange Card in hand after Battle to Protect this Card from Rescue this turn.

Impossible to rescue in T2, almost impossible in T1.

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Unrepentant)
Rev. 9:20
If a Lost Soul is rescued or a Character is converted to a Hero, (except by an Artifact) Protect this Lost Soul and all Lost Souls not in Sites from rescue this turn.

Destroys Luke, makes SoG a guaranteed block.

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Blasphemer)
Rev. 16:9
If an Enhancement that Involves Judgement or Plague is in play, Protect this Lost Soul from Rescue.

Judgement or Plagues? What the heck does that mean?
Does Protection of Jerusalem count because it's God casting judgement on the Assyrians?
Aside from those questions there's the potential that it can become unrescuable.

Quote from: megamanlan on September 16, 2011, 03:13:01 PM

Lost Soul (Boaster)
Rev. 3:17
When this Card is Drawn, Place a Hero Opponent Controls under Deck to Draw 1. Drawing and Place Abilities Cannot be Negated.

No, no, no, NO.
This is the exact opposite of what we want to do with the set.

Note:
Spell out "you", we aren't texting, it's not going to cost you money to type two extra characters.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyone going to the Arden Hills game night want to help me test these?

theselfevident · « **Reply #36 on:** September 17, 2011, 07:00:20 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on September 17, 2011, 03:01:15 AM

The Seals cannot be taken as Doms, it's a misinterpretation of the game.

I didn't know the game could be misinterpreted... Does anyone else feel like I'm misinterpreting the game?

megamanlan · « **Reply #37 on:** September 17, 2011, 07:59:42 PM »

Discarder - it should be able to be rescued, why is it impossible?

Fearer - Explain what you mean. I run Sitelock (the only kind of Deck that uses Far Country that I know of) and I would use Far Country over this one myself.

Torture - remember that this stops Bab's Banquet, Failed Objective, Bearing Bad News, etc. Any Card that requires u to Discard a Character(s) as a Cost would be useless. I think I might change it to say:
'All Character Effects that Discard the Character after battle become Effect may be used once.' so people don't build decks around Discard Characters. Also this does stop Bab Soilders, Arioch and other very useful cards as well.

Worshipper - I can change it to Revelation Demon and add 'Except by an Angel' to the Card. Also I'll Change that Orange Card to Orange Enhancement.

Unrepentant - Isn't that the point to get rid of sets like that? Anyway, Unless you use Site Lock this isn't that great. Not to mention the number of Enhancements that kick LS's out of Sites.

Blasphemer - No it doesn't. Only Cards specifically noting Judgement, like the Seals, only cards that are initiating Judgement like the Plagues of Egypt, the Seals, the Trumps, and cards that are specifically apart of God's Judgement of a person or people. PoJ depicts Angels protecting Israel by fighting the Assyrians. Okay?

Boaster - I'd like it! Let's bring back the LS dropper Cards! Not to mention Set-Aside and Punisher aren't that bad. But maybe I should change it to 'Draw and Place Abilities cannot be Prevented' instead.

Don't forget that FbtN LS stops all of this and so does all of the 'Negate LS' Abilities out there, so I don't see the problem here since none of them are CBN or even CBP. So after the changes and Browarod's suggested LS and other card Ideas that I have, they counteract these cards anyway, not to mention their are already cards out there to stop them, so I think there okay.

JSB23 · « **Reply #38 on:** September 17, 2011, 10:48:14 PM »

Discarder - there are about a bajillion (give or take a few jillion) cards that discard heroes, Stone of Thebez comes readily to mind.

Fearer - Far country activates once, this can potentially activate ten times.

Torturer - I'd trade Death of Unrighteous to make my Nero/Garrison/Sabbath Breaker/Heretics unkillable

Worshipper - ~~Revelation demon? The heck?~~ Anyway, adding the except for an angel part does almost nothing and making it an enhancement is still OP in type 2. EDIT: Just noticed these are all part of your revelation set. ಠ_ಠ

Unrepentent - No, the point of it is to counter popular Metas and nerf overpowered ones, last time I check Luke heroes were neither.

Blasphemer - Says you, I can make a pretty good case for PoJ, which is my point; judgment too vague a category. That and I'm against LS that auto-protect themselves.

Boaster - Not sure if trolling or just ignorant.... Pol said that the point of this set is to counter drawing decks, this makes them exponentially more powerful because Confusion of Mind, Covenant With Death and Golden Calf can't stop drawing if this card is up.

Warriorclass · « **Reply #39 on:** September 18, 2011, 04:07:10 PM »

Off Topic: what are these submissions for, will they actually be cards (maybe)?

Eric the Wolfe · « **Reply #40 on:** September 18, 2011, 04:14:32 PM »

Quote from: Warriorclass on September 18, 2011, 04:07:10 PM

Off Topic: what are these submissions for, will they actually be cards (maybe)?

These submissions are for a (unofficial) player created expansion. They will most likely not be printed and are just for fun.

megamanlan · « **Reply #41 on:** September 18, 2011, 09:10:30 PM »

Quote from: theselfevident on September 17, 2011, 07:00:20 PM

Quote from: megamanlan on September 17, 2011, 03:01:15 AM
The Seals cannot be taken as Doms, it's a misinterpretation of the game.

I didn't know the game could be misinterpreted... Does anyone else feel like I'm misinterpreting the game?

Just look at the current Doms, SoG, NJ, Burial, Doubt, GoW, Mayhem, GotL, AotL, Guardian and Falling Away. These cards cannot be properly represented by any other card type, The Seals are linked to Angels and ur interpretation of the verses and game are wrong. These Cards can be interpreted by Silver Enhancements because they are linked to Angels. Domiants are for cards that cannot be properly represented by another card type. Understand?

Also, read the verses before you make ideas on the cards, most of the players that I have met don't want cards that have some effect that is vaguely or not anywhere close to what the verses say, and what I read of ur Doms that is an issue.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #42 on:** September 18, 2011, 10:38:08 PM »

Quote from: Warriorclass on September 18, 2011, 04:07:10 PM

Off Topic: what are these submissions for, will they actually be cards (maybe)?

They are submissions for an unofficial online expansion. They will be playable as an optional game type on RTS.

Josh · « **Reply #43 on:** September 18, 2011, 10:39:20 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on September 18, 2011, 09:10:30 PM

Quote from: theselfevident on September 17, 2011, 07:00:20 PM
Quote from: megamanlan on September 17, 2011, 03:01:15 AM
The Seals cannot be taken as Doms, it's a misinterpretation of the game.

I didn't know the game could be misinterpreted... Does anyone else feel like I'm misinterpreting the game?

Just look at the current Doms, SoG, NJ, Burial, Doubt, GoW, Mayhem, GotL, AotL, Guardian and Falling Away. These cards cannot be properly represented by any other card type, The Seals are linked to Angels and ur interpretation of the verses and game are wrong. These Cards can be interpreted by Silver Enhancements because they are linked to Angels. Domiants are for cards that cannot be properly represented by another card type. Understand?

Also, read the verses before you make ideas on the cards, most of the players that I have met don't want cards that have some effect that is vaguely or not anywhere close to what the verses say, and what I read of ur Doms that is an issue.

Angel of the Lord can't be represented by a silver hero? Christian Martyr couldn't be represented by an enhancement?

Also, Grapes of Wrath is from Revelations...

megamanlan · « **Reply #44 on:** September 18, 2011, 11:34:42 PM »

AotL is a representation of the pre-incarnate Jesus from Exodus. In Luke, the angel mentioned could not be represented by a Silver Hero because of the part, 'And the Glory of the Lord shone around them' How could that be a Silver Hero?
Although I will mention that I do use the following verses for support for Angels to rescue LS's.

CM would be an Enhancement? How? And what Brigade what that be? CM is an Evil Dominant because it can't be a Multi Evil Enhancement w/o it being OP.

GoW, So? What does that have to do w/ this? CM is from Revelation too.

There is no way to make the Seals Doms because it would be impossible to be biblically accurate w/o them being OP. Plus all Doms are there because the best next option for them is to be OP Cards on other types. Doms are to be cards that would only work as cards that cannot work otherwise w/o being OP w/o really easy ways for Opponents to stop them.

lightningninja · « **Reply #45 on:** September 18, 2011, 11:41:54 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on September 18, 2011, 11:34:42 PM

CM would be an Enhancement? How? And what Brigade what that be? CM is an Evil Dominant because it can't be a Multi Evil Enhancement w/o it being OP.

Do you realize what you said? Just read it again. We made it a card that can be played at ANY time in any deck instead of an enhancement.

megamanlan · « **Reply #46 on:** September 19, 2011, 01:13:52 AM »

U can't tell me that making an Enhancement that Discards a Hero and is CBN and is a staple is not OP?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #47 on:** September 19, 2011, 01:33:09 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on September 19, 2011, 01:13:52 AM

U can't tell me that making an Enhancement that Discards a Hero and is CBN and is a staple is not OP?

Are you trying to insinuate that fact that it is a dominant balances it? Because it doesn't.

megamanlan · « **Reply #48 on:** September 19, 2011, 02:22:07 PM »

Then why do we have Dominants?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #49 on:** September 19, 2011, 03:24:31 PM »

As a fun game mechanic. What more does it need to be?

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Author Topic: Expansion Submissions Discussion (Read 9908 times)

Lamborghini_diablo