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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Entertainment => Topic started by: EmJayBee83 on April 25, 2019, 10:51:54 PM

Title: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: EmJayBee83 on April 25, 2019, 10:51:54 PM

Aquaman was in it!  <== Fake spoiler.  ;)

Just got back from the theater. It is too soon for spoilers. I'll just say...

It was a really satisfying wrap up to a decade plus of movies.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on April 25, 2019, 11:12:38 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

I AM IRON MAN

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Kor on April 27, 2019, 03:07:14 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Hail Hydra

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Kevinthedude on April 27, 2019, 05:13:38 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Everyone better thank that random rat, the true hero of the universe.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: TheJaylor on April 27, 2019, 08:26:15 AM

Quote from: Kevinthedude on April 27, 2019, 05:13:38 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

Everyone better thank that random rat, the true hero of the universe.

And now we know why Dr. Strange couldn't tell Tony... Also, I feel like the spoiler tags are unnecessary. Anyone who opens this thread should know what's coming.  :P

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM

Definitely an epic movie. 

I gotta ask the question everyone has been wanting to know....

Spoiler (hover to show)

Who was the random kid standing alone at Tony Stark's funeral near the back???  Also when Peter Parker goes back to high school it doesn't seem like any of his friends have aged 5 years and it's all back to normal.  Also Thor was great.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on April 27, 2019, 09:01:08 AM

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM

Definitely an epic movie. 

I gotta ask the question everyone has been wanting to know....

Spoiler (hover to show)

Who was the random kid standing alone at Tony Stark's funeral near the back???  Also when Peter Parker goes back to high school it doesn't seem like any of his friends have aged 5 years and it's all back to normal.  Also Thor was great.

Spoiler (hover to show)

The kid is Harley, from Iron Man 3 when Tony crashes in Tennessee. Not sure how they're going to handle the Spiderman situation, but there's a couple choices, including the obvious - all important characters were dusted explanation

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 10:02:48 AM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 27, 2019, 09:01:08 AM

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM

Definitely an epic movie. 

I gotta ask the question everyone has been wanting to know....

Spoiler (hover to show)

Who was the random kid standing alone at Tony Stark's funeral near the back???  Also when Peter Parker goes back to high school it doesn't seem like any of his friends have aged 5 years and it's all back to normal.  Also Thor was great.

Spoiler (hover to show)

The kid is Harley, from Iron Man 3 when Tony crashes in Tennessee. Not sure how they're going to handle the Spiderman situation, but there's a couple choices, including the obvious - all important characters were dusted explanation

  I see, I'll have to re watch IM3 I don't remember that scene.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on April 27, 2019, 11:10:16 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm just glad Rocket didn't die.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: EmJayBee83 on April 27, 2019, 11:41:03 AM

Quote from: TheJaylor on April 27, 2019, 08:26:15 AM

Also, I feel like the spoiler tags are unnecessary. Anyone who opens this thread should know what's coming.  :P

I think in this thread all discussion of anything related to Endgame should always be enclosed in spoiler tags.

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM

Definitely an epic movie. 

I gotta ask the question everyone has been wanting to know....

Spoiler (hover to show)

... Also when Peter Parker goes back to high school it doesn't seem like any of his friends have aged 5 years and it's all back to normal.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Dusting raises soooooo many questions...  If Peter was 16 when he got dusted, can he go out and drink now?

Quote from: Lampy 2.0 on April 27, 2019, 11:10:16 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

I'm just glad Rocket didn't die.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Tony Stark (to Rocket): I honestly thought you were a Build-a-bear.

Asgaardian Guards (chasing Rocket): Stop, Rabbit!

Also...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Good on them for how they gave massive props to Robert Downey Jr/Tony Stark/Iron Man throughout the movie. Everything from Tony Stark's initial scenes with Nebula through the Happy's cheese burger discussion, that character was handled near perfectly.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Bobbert on April 29, 2019, 07:09:17 PM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 25, 2019, 11:12:38 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

I AM IRON MAN

Not gonna lie, I was really hoping the line was gonna be

Spoiler (hover to show)

(http://I am an Avenger)

Like, I can get why they went with what they did, particularly with how the movie was focused, but it still would've been a nice emphasis on team.

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM

Definitely an epic movie. 

I gotta ask the question everyone has been wanting to know....

Spoiler (hover to show)

Who was the random kid standing alone at Tony Stark's funeral near the back???  Also when Peter Parker goes back to high school it doesn't seem like any of his friends have aged 5 years and it's all back to normal.  Also Thor was great.

I had both these questions as well. And the same final opinion, but that's par for the course (Ragnarok was and still is my favorite).

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Jonesy on April 29, 2019, 08:03:09 PM

Quote from: Bobbert on April 29, 2019, 07:09:17 PM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on April 25, 2019, 11:12:38 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

I AM IRON MAN

Not gonna lie, I was really hoping the line was gonna be

Spoiler (hover to show)

(http://I am an Avenger)

Like, I can get why they went with what they did, particularly with how the movie was focused, but it still would've been a nice emphasis on team.

Quote from: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on April 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM

Definitely an epic movie. 

I gotta ask the question everyone has been wanting to know....

Spoiler (hover to show)

Who was the random kid standing alone at Tony Stark's funeral near the back???  Also when Peter Parker goes back to high school it doesn't seem like any of his friends have aged 5 years and it's all back to normal.  Also Thor was great.

I had both these questions as well. And the same final opinion, but that's par for the course (Ragnarok was and still is my favorite).

We only see his one friend, I think he disappeared as well.

I think it might of been confirmed that the random guy was the kid from Iron Man 3

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Bobbert on April 29, 2019, 10:48:46 PM

Yeah, I read the rest of the thread, just thought I'd mention that I left the theater with the same questions.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Master Q on May 01, 2019, 01:06:17 PM

Yeah, saw the movie last night. Without spoiling anything, I will say it was a movie full of plot conveniences and rushed explanations. Regarding spoilers, a few examples of what I mean:

Spoiler (hover to show)

1. Wow, it sure was amazing that Captain Marvel was able to find Tony and Nebula drifting off in the vastness of space, about to run out of oxygen, and somehow was able to fly them potentially millions of lightyears back to earth before they died.

2. Tony invents hyper-accurate quantum-jump physics in a day? A week? We won't ever know, but man, that sure was lucky. Basically inventing a new science that absolutely shatters the foundations of reality as all the characters know it, but whatever.

3. They had just enough Pym particles left for all of them, exactly enough to make their plans work? That's sure lucky. And, even if they inevitably botch it, they could just grab more without repercussions (like, Hank was always fated to mysteriously lose and never account for those vials that they took)? How neat.

4. As much as I genuinely like the Tony-Howard scene, it's a good thing Tony's dad is a complete buffoon, because I sure wouldn't question anyone that I've never seen before acting suspicious in a top-secret (apparently easily-broken into) lab.

5. Man, not knowing how to get the soul stone, it sure was coincidental that the two characters that go after it are just about the most expendable in the entire franchise, with just about the least to lose. I almost cared.

6. You mean to tell me that my favorite scene, just about the only thing I found interesting in Infinity War, the gauntlet-smelting lore with Peter Dinklage on the space forge, means literally nothing, since Iron Man could've just made a gauntlet to use the stones out of his Iron Man metal? Thanos couldn't do that, but he could use Tony's Quantum machine? Yeah, sure.

7. Nebula knew how to use the Quantum Travel machine? And Thanos was able to get his whole ship through, somehow? That's amaaaaazing.

8. Boy, it sure was incredible that Ant-Man didn't immediately die from being blasted in the face by the explosion as Thano's ship tore into the Avengers HQ.

9. Considering Captain Marvel was with them at the beginning of the movie, it sure seems convoluted that she couldn't go with them to get the infinity stones from the start. Almost like she had no reason to not to, but they invented some fake reason for her to leave. They didn't think the most powerful being on their team would be more useful for their plan (which could not fail) than on some random planet somewhere -who knows where- in the galaxy? Also, she shows up just in time to destroy the ship? Suuure.

10. Captain America can use Mjolnir? Yeah, I saw it coming, but yeah, it was awesome. But... he can also summon lightning with it? Sure he can. Resolved! Thanks Thor 1  :P

11. Captain America put all the infinity stones back in their proper places (including the sceptre, including the ether, including the soulstone, somehow) without altering the timeline, with no explanation? Also, he stays behind and lives out his life, all while still not altering the timeline? Sounds like a paradox brewing, but suuure.

My over-emphasis on the sure goes to show how extraordinarily fortunate those things were/how unconvinced/taken out of the movie I was by them. Feel free to correct me if I missed something that explained some of these points in better detail.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Master Q on May 01, 2019, 01:06:56 PM

I could go on and on about individual scenes -such as the eye-rolling, audible groaning 'girl power' scene- and how predictable things were when I was watching the movie, and how most of the serious scenes fell flat for me (the audience at our theater did not help this), but I will say, overall, I enjoyed the movie for what it was- a satisfactory decent conclusion to a sometimes great, sometimes slogfest decade-plus chronicle. I was so bored watching Infinity War that the good things this movie did (all the quiet, character-reflective moments, and the few consequences that actually stuck) really made up for all the dumb parts in my mind. Fine, but not great.

These marvel movies have become so bloated as a whole that I would've been fine if they ended it on Infinity War. What Marvel accomplished with these movies is truly impressive, given everything, but I couldn't have cared less going into Endgame. The fact that they gave certain characters some great final moments and arcs was worth seeing the movie for and felt earned in the grand scheme of things, and I can appreciate the effort and payoff in that aspect. This was just about exactly how I expected it to be, only I enjoyed it where I didn't think I would going in. It's for sure a movie that you can really enjoy as long as you don't think too hard about it. ;)


...However, it's all going to be undermined by future films, since there's no way they're leaving well enough alone. So look forward to that. :thumbup:

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: thecoolguy on May 01, 2019, 02:15:14 PM

I usually don’t like superhero movies but it was decent

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: YourMathTeacher on May 07, 2019, 08:22:42 PM

Quote from: Master Q on May 01, 2019, 01:06:17 PM

My over-emphasis on the sure goes to show how extraordinarily fortunate those things were/how unconvinced/taken out of the movie I was by them. Feel free to correct me if I missed something that explained some of these points in better detail.

Spoiler (hover to show)

One point to consider is that all of the "fortunate" events (including the rat) only happened in one iteration of the millions+? of iterations Dr. Strange viewed of the future in Infinity Wars. This one iteration (where they succeeded) was clearly represented as nearly impossible.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: EmJayBee83 on May 08, 2019, 10:48:05 AM

Quote from: Master Q on May 01, 2019, 01:06:17 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

3. They had just enough Pym particles left for all of them, exactly enough to make their plans work? That's sure lucky. And, even if they inevitably botch it, they could just grab more without repercussions (like, Hank was always fated to mysteriously lose and never account for those vials that they took)? How neat.

When Cap grabbed the Pym particles, he created a new branch in the multiverse. So, yeah, in that universe Hank was "always fated" to lose the Pym particles.

5. Man, not knowing how to get the soul stone, it sure was coincidental that the two characters that go after it are just about the most expendable in the entire franchise, with just about the least to lose. I almost cared.

So, logically, who do you think would have been better choices to have been tasked to go to Vormir?  Black Widow should have replaced Thor in Asgaard or Nebula in Morag?

7. Nebula knew how to use the Quantum Travel machine? And Thanos was able to get his whole ship through, somehow? That's amaaaaazing.

Not sure what is so "amaaaaazing" about Thanos bringing his ship through. Rocket's whole ship made both the outbound and return quantum trips.

9. Considering Captain Marvel was with them at the beginning of the movie, it sure seems convoluted that she couldn't go with them to get the infinity stones from the start. Almost like she had no reason to not to, but they invented some fake reason for her to leave. They didn't think the most powerful being on their team would be more useful for their plan (which could not fail) than on some random planet somewhere -who knows where- in the galaxy? Also, she shows up just in time to destroy the ship? Suuure.

They went after the Infinity stones more than five years after the beginning of the movie. Captain Marvel should have stayed around on Earth just hoping they would come up with a plan? That would make absolutely zero sense. Other than Nick Fury's pager, which is dead (Captain Marvel end scene), no one had the capability of summoning Captain Marvel. She did not return to Earth until *after* the infinity stones were used.

10. Captain America can use Mjolnir? Yeah, I saw it coming, but yeah, it was awesome. But... he can also summon lightning with it? Sure he can.

In the first Thor movie, Odin enchants Mjolnir saying "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy shall possess the power of Thor." If you can wield Mjolnir you can summon lightning with it.

11. Captain America put all the infinity stones back in their proper places (including the sceptre, including the ether, including the soulstone, somehow) without altering the timeline, with no explanation? Also, he stays behind and lives out his life, all while still not altering the timeline? Sounds like a paradox brewing, but suuure.

The timelines seemed fairly impervious to change; if Cap could get close, that would be good enough. Even if he didn't nail it exactly it would not effect the the main timeline anyway.  After the climatic battle with Thanos, I am not sure anyone would have wanted to watch another 90 minutes showing Cap returning the stones.

Captain America's life with Peggy was in an alternate timeline, he simply returned to the main timeline at the end to explain and pass on his shield. So, no paradox on that score.

My over-emphasis on the sure goes to show how extraordinarily fortunate those things were/how unconvinced/taken out of the movie I was by them. Feel free to correct me if I missed something that explained some of these points in better detail.

Not corrections, so much as adding context to a handful of your points.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Master Q on May 08, 2019, 12:43:55 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on May 07, 2019, 08:22:42 PM

Spoiler (hover to show)

One point to consider is that all of the "fortunate" events (including the rat) only happened in one iteration of the millions+? of iterations Dr. Strange viewed of the future in Infinity Wars. This one iteration (where they succeeded) was clearly represented as nearly impossible.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Except it’s heavily implied that Dr. Strange knows that this reality is the one winning outcome he foresaw only when the deciding moment came. This means everything that happens before (Ant Man being freed, Tony inventing quantum travel, etc) was always destined to happen to get them to this point, and Dr. Strange doesn’t know anything regarding those things. How else would Dr. Strange even know what’s going on? Is he:

A. Astrally observing everything in the universe the whole time he’s viewing the millions of outcomes?

Or,

B. Is he only seeing what happens after he’s brought back from the snap, or the moments before it happens in the realities where he doesn’t give up the stone?

One of these seems far more plausible than the other. But, I will concede he could know everything that happens beforehand even if he wasn’t there to witness it, only because the infinity stones seem to be able to do whatever the writers want with powers that are not well-defined in the movies.

Also, you’re telling me that the only reality in which they win requires Tony to use the stones against a stone-less Thanos and his army of expendables? They really couldn’t win if Tony or Captain Marvel flew off with the stones the moment they got them? They couldn’t have Captain Marvel, perfect SJW champion herself, do the snap? I mean, I get why they couldn’t do that (Iron Man needs a significant death), but logic-wise, given all their available resources, it makes very little sense.

All I’m getting at is that the whole thing is pretty convoluted no matter how you look at it, and really struggles under scrutiny. I mean, the movie goes out of its way to shell other Time-traveling movie ‘rules’ while at the same time eroding itself as it goes along (the whole ‘Cap goes back’ ending really ruins the rules the movie was trying to establish). It’s one of the pratfalls of hinging your entire -meant to be taken seriously- movie on something as tricky as time-travel. This doesn’t even touch on the absurdity that is the aftermath of the Infinity War snap and the undoing of said snap. It’s basically GI-Joe 2’s ending all over again and then some, but I won’t get into that nonsense. ;)

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: Master Q on May 08, 2019, 01:11:26 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on May 08, 2019, 10:48:05 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

So, logically, who do you think would have been better choices to have been tasked to go to Vormir?  Black Widow should have replaced Thor in Asgaard or Nebula in Morag?

No one. They picked the absolute best options by pure chance- which is where my disbelief comes in. They could've easily swapped Nebula + War Machine with Hawkeye and BW and it would've made just as logical sense, only there wouldn't have been any personal stakes.

Not sure what is so "amaaaaazing" about Thanos bringing his ship through. Rocket's whole ship made both the outbound and return quantum trips.

The emphasis amaaaazing was more in reference to Nebula's 'plug and play' ability to grasp the intricacies of quantum travel and use the machine. Not a huge problem, since everything can be explained "Thanos took years to understand and apply the pym particles/combing Nebula's memory for the needed information before going through the portal", but it doesn't seem like that's the case, so it's pretty convenient.

They went after the Infinity stones more than five years after the beginning of the movie. Captain Marvel should have stayed around on Earth just hoping they would come up with a plan? That would make absolutely zero sense. Other than Nick Fury's pager, which is dead (Captain Marvel end scene), no one had the capability of summoning Captain Marvel. She did not return to Earth until *after* the infinity stones were used.

No, but why wouldn't they wait for her to return before going after the stones? They are dealing with time travel after all, so waiting isn't going to ruin anything. Also, I can't believe they had no way to summon her or even let her know what was going on, since: 1- they were already shown talking to her early on from some distant planet. 2- She must've known to come back somehow when everyone was fighting Thanos. Makes zero sense to not include your most powerful piece in a plan to save the universe.

In the first Thor movie, Odin enchants Mjolnir saying "Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy shall possess the power of Thor." If you can wield Mjolnir you can summon lightning with it.

Somebody did clear this up for me earlier. But, c'mon, you expect me to remember word-for-word a line from the first Thor movie? 8ish years ago?  :angel: However, can't really blame the movies for that, so that Q is resolved.

The timelines seemed fairly impervious to change; if Cap could get close, that would be good enough. Even if he didn't nail it exactly it would not effect the the main timeline anyway.  After the climatic battle with Thanos, I am not sure anyone would have wanted to watch another 90 minutes showing Cap returning the stones.

If the timelines were impervious to change, why even return the stones at all?

Captain America's life with Peggy was in an alternate timeline, he simply returned to the main timeline at the end to explain and pass on his shield. So, no paradox on that score.

Except he didn't return, because he never left. If he had, he would've appeared on the time pedestal as an old man, not waiting by a park bench. That conveyed to me that he knew the day and, instead of returning with the time portal, waited there on that day for them to find him. I don't know how it could be interpreted any other way.

Fortunately, these things don’t seem to be stopping people from enjoying the movie. Probably because it actually attempts to do its characters some justice and doesn’t spit in the face of its fans (unlike a certain other not-to-be-named movie). It’s admirable for a franchise that’s essentially written itself into a corner and needs to end. But now that I’ve had a week to think about it, I’ll amend my earlier statement from saying the movie is ‘good’ to say it's ‘fine’. I can’t take it seriously like it wants me to, but there were genuinely good parts and genuine effort put in; enough that I can’t bring myself to dislike it.

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: EmJayBee83 on May 08, 2019, 05:47:36 PM

Quote from: Master Q on May 08, 2019, 01:11:26 PM

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on May 08, 2019, 10:48:05 AM

Spoiler (hover to show)

So, logically, who do you think would have been better choices to have been tasked to go to Vormir?  Black Widow should have replaced Thor in Asgaard or Nebula in Morag?

No one. They picked the absolute best options by pure chance- which is where my disbelief comes in. They could've easily swapped Nebula + War Machine with Hawkeye and BW and it would've made just as logical sense, only there wouldn't have been any personal stakes.

Not really. Nebula was already familiar with Morag, and neither BW nor Hawkeye have met Quill prior to this point. Since they needed to intercept Quill, having Nebula go to Morag was the most logical choice.

They went after the Infinity stones more than five years after the beginning of the movie. Captain Marvel should have stayed around on Earth just hoping they would come up with a plan? That would make absolutely zero sense. Other than Nick Fury's pager, which is dead (Captain Marvel end scene), no one had the capability of summoning Captain Marvel. She did not return to Earth until *after* the infinity stones were used.

No, but why wouldn't they wait for her to return before going after the stones? They are dealing with time travel after all, so waiting isn't going to ruin anything. Also, I can't believe they had no way to summon her or even let her know what was going on, since: 1- they were already shown talking to her early on from some distant planet. 2- She must've known to come back somehow when everyone was fighting Thanos. Makes zero sense to not include your most powerful piece in a plan to save the universe.

I forgot she was in the conference call, which kind of ruins my theory. I guess the problem was they didn't have enough Pym particles for another hero.


The timelines seemed fairly impervious to change; if Cap could get close, that would be good enough. Even if he didn't nail it exactly it would not effect the the main timeline anyway.  After the climatic battle with Thanos, I am not sure anyone would have wanted to watch another 90 minutes showing Cap returning the stones.

If the timelines were impervious to change, why even return the stones at all?

I didn't say the timelines were completely impervious to change. I just meant that they appear not to be super-sensitive butterfly effect things. As long as the stones got back at some point close in time, things would be fine. It actually doesn't matter anyway, because all we saw was the main timeline and nothing Cap did in the past would effect that.

Captain America's life with Peggy was in an alternate timeline, he simply returned to the main timeline at the end to explain and pass on his shield. So, no paradox on that score.

Except he didn't return, because he never left. If he had, he would've appeared on the time pedestal as an old man, not waiting by a park bench. That conveyed to me that he knew the day and, instead of returning with the time portal, waited there on that day for them to find him. I don't know how it could be interpreted any other way.

There was a Q&A with the Russo brothers where they explained the end scene pretty much exactly as I described.

Answers to responses to previous answers. ;)

Title: Re: Avengers: Endgame
Post by: The Guardian on May 16, 2019, 12:30:44 PM

My thought's on one of Master Q's questions...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote

2. Tony invents hyper-accurate quantum-jump physics in a day? A week? We won't ever know, but man, that sure was lucky. Basically inventing a new science that absolutely shatters the foundations of reality as all the characters know it, but whatever.

Spoiler (hover to show)

The impression that I got was that he had been working on the time machine pretty much the whole time (once it was discovered that Thanos had destroyed the stones), but he didn't want to let everyone else know for fear of giving false hope.