Author Topic: How do you select your LSs?  (Read 4492 times)

Offline Reth

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How do you select your LSs?
« on: February 18, 2019, 04:48:25 PM »
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Hi there,

topic says it all and to bring up this topic again (there has been a similar thread several years ago): If you have the (free) choice how do you decide upon which LS to include in your deck (mainly T1)? And does it differ between T1 and T2? Of course there might be some staples like Lawless or similar - but besides those: How do you make your choice and why?

Looking forward to get some insights!  :)

Bye

Offline Gabe

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 04:54:30 PM »
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After the staples I choose them based on which ones help my deck strategy. There are probably 5 that are pretty staple for me in most decks though so that doesn't leave much flexibility.
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Offline Reth

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2019, 05:09:06 PM »
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Thanks Gabe!

After the staples I choose them based on which ones help my deck strategy.

If you don't mind maybe you could give some examples (also from older decks)?

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2019, 05:09:36 PM »
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The answer to this as with all deck building questions, is to test. One of the unfortunate qualities of Redemption is that it's a very small community and not a lot of deck optimization goes on relative to other card games so in all likelihood even Nats winning decks are objectively suboptimal in at least some ways and deck building styles can go out of reason suddenly when someone finally realizes the current meta was obviously lame and better strategies were right under everyone's nose.

So the answer is that some of us think unity O.T. souls are the best for almost every deck while some of us mix the strongest stand-alone souls from both testaments and either way there are usually 5-6 souls each player can't live without and a pool of more situational souls they use to fill the remaining slots based on the needs of their deck. And no one really knows for which what's best because no one plays enough testing games against a wide enough pool of players and decks to ever know for sure!

Offline The Guardian

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 05:39:55 PM »
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Personally I really like where the LS pool is right now--obviously there's some LS that are found in nearly every deck because they enhance nearly every strategy, so really the most strategic decisions become the "non-staple" selections.

One classic example that I like to give is the Forsaken LS, which I don't think hardly anyone considers a "staple." With so much CBN and CBP banding available, it might seem like it's not worth the slot. However, if your strategy on offense, defense or both is not very strong against banding, then giving yourself that extra potential to stop banding could be exactly what you need. It is also a LS that people often forget or don't pay attention to because they are using CBN or CBP banding so they don't use Woes or Son of God to deal with it. Countless times I have seen people misplay thinking that they will be able to band, and suddenly they are stuck with a suboptimal rescue or block.

However, I think the LS strategy will become very interesting if and when we make a "Negate O.T. Lost Souls" LS (so a player can use the N.T. souls and negate LS for opponents running O.T. LS).  8)
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2019, 05:48:44 PM »
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However, I think the LS strategy will become very interesting if and when we make a "Negate O.T. Lost Souls" LS (so a player can use the N.T. souls and negate LS for opponents running O.T. LS).  8)

I've thought about that and I'm actually a tad worried that would disrupt the balance we seem to have now and push everyone toward a unified soul lineup. If both testaments can fully negate each other, it's mostly down to luck who flops their negate soul first/who gets SoG first to remove the opponent's negate soul. On top of that, knowing that your souls being negated is a likely eventuality, I'd imagine people would be pushed toward souls that generate their value when played in the hopes that they get their value in before the opponent finds their negate soul and toward souls like Humble and the RoP one whose name I forgot since they are effectively CBN, plus any other effectively CBN souls that get released.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2019, 05:52:10 PM »
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It might for a time, but then everyone realizes that half the time they aren't going to getting any value from their OT/NT negate LS, and they begin to wonder if that slot could be better used...and the cycle continues... ::)
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Offline goalieking87

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2019, 07:20:30 PM »
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You could also see more of a split between OT and NT souls to mitigate disruption. It would also probably influence toward inclusion of some souls that are not impacted (Humble and CBP).  Humble is a staple today anyway.

Offline The Guardian

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2019, 07:40:22 PM »
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You could also see more of a split between OT and NT souls to mitigate disruption. It would also probably influence toward inclusion of some souls that are not impacted (Humble and CBP).  Humble is a staple today anyway.

I actually disagree with Humble being a staple (though obviously it's a matter of preference and opinion). If I'm using a deck that does a lot of drawing and searching then my hand is likely to be larger than my opponents more often than not. Furthermore, if I'm using Humble and my opponent is running Wanderer, then I'm potentially going to be facing two Humbles.
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Offline jesse

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2019, 08:13:27 PM »
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Here's a recent Land of Redemption article related to the topic of Lost Soul selection.
Love is the flame of God, Who is love and an all-consuming fire!- Song. 8:6-7, 1 Jn. 4:8, Deut. 4:24

Offline goalieking87

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2019, 12:04:37 AM »
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You could also see more of a split between OT and NT souls to mitigate disruption. It would also probably influence toward inclusion of some souls that are not impacted (Humble and CBP).  Humble is a staple today anyway.

I actually disagree with Humble being a staple (though obviously it's a matter of preference and opinion). If I'm using a deck that does a lot of drawing and searching then my hand is likely to be larger than my opponents more often than not. Furthermore, if I'm using Humble and my opponent is running Wanderer, then I'm potentially going to be facing two Humbles.

I definitely see what you are saying, and don’t disagree. I was heading out the door when I tried to write my first message so wasn’t too careful with words and might not have referenced it as a “staple” if I had taken more time.

However, it also depends somewhat on your definition of “staple.” Does it mean that it goes in 100% of decks, no questions asked? Or if it would go in 90% of decks, could it still be a staple? 80%?

If the definition of staple is that they would go in 100% of decks, then I’m not sure there are really many out there outside of doms.

I probably try to run Humble in more than 85% of my decks.

That said, I also don’t consider myself to be an amazing deck builder and most of the time the Lost Souls are one of the last things to be modified for me. So if I start a deck concept, it will likely have Humble in it to start (benefits with the ability as well as targeted as OT or NT Soul), and if I never finish refining the deck, it never comes out.

:)

Offline The Guardian

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Re: How do you select your LSs?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2019, 01:26:14 AM »
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That's a fair point about staples...if staples mean "100% of decks" then John showed us in 2015 that not even Son of God is a staple... ::)

(Not to mention that I fully expect to see Chariot of Fire played this season.)

For me, I think I would consider staple to be 90% or more of high level tournament decks. It should be really interesting to see the stats when T1 decklists are done for Nationals this year...I hope someone is able to compile the lists and do a breakdown.  8)
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