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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Card Information => Topic started by: Gabe on February 12, 2019, 02:52:32 PM

Title: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 12, 2019, 02:52:32 PM
Over the course of the next week we will be revealing the Legacy Rare cards we plan to include in PoC. The number of these 18 new cards will pick up where we left off last year.

I assume some will ask about the distribution of these. I don't know yet that anything official has been decided. They may be included in phase 2 or Rob may choose to wait to include them when both phases are combined.

Without further ado, here's the first spoiler:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 12, 2019, 03:28:15 PM
Nice!  I always thought this would be a good one to pick!  Seem even more that way since we have been getting some more Egyptian stuff lately!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 12, 2019, 04:17:06 PM
Preview #2, a classic FooF card that all the prophets we're printing this year love:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Master Q on February 12, 2019, 04:19:33 PM
Why is the middle word in the #1 card title not capitalized?

I assume some will ask about the distribution of these. I don't know yet that anything official has been decided. They may be included in phase 2 or Rob may choose to wait to include them when both phases are combined.

I would like to think that this year the Legacy rare would take the spot of a common in any given pack at random from a box, rather than the Rare (still about 3-5 per box). Should this be implemented (it should), there shouldn't be a problem with either waiting to include them when both phases are combined (to incentivize sales after the fact) or begin including them right away (so people can start collecting them sooner). If it is done like it was done last year, well... I really don't want that to be the case again. :2cents:
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on February 12, 2019, 04:23:32 PM
i agree that having them take the place of a common would be much better
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 12, 2019, 04:37:21 PM
Why is the middle word in the #1 card title not capitalized?


That's how the original is...we are discussing if it would be better to change that or leave as is.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 12, 2019, 04:53:52 PM
I also forgot to mention, this makes it game time!  So with MkE #20 the #19 card is more than likely a Genesis card.  Which one do we think it is?  There are several characters that are good as is as well as a handful of enhancements.  There are also now 13 cards between MkE and Search, which will be hard to narrow down as that is basically the whole O.T.  But it does mean that only 2 cards come after it, so probably N.T. ones.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 12, 2019, 05:03:37 PM
Why is the middle word in the #1 card title not capitalized?

That's how the original is...we are discussing if it would be better to change that or leave as is.

MKE image updated. We're unable to come up with a good reason that the original wasn't capitalized. Joseph Before Pharaoh was like that in Patriarchs as well and we updated it with the FF reprint.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 12, 2019, 06:10:46 PM
i agree that having them take the place of a common would be much better


I very strongly agree , I think it would be much better to have the legacy rare replace a common card spot instead of the Rare spot in booster packs.

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 12, 2019, 08:10:59 PM
i agree that having them take the place of a common would be much better


I very strongly agree , I think it would be much better to have the legacy rare replace a common card spot instead of the Rare spot in booster packs.

 +1
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kor on February 12, 2019, 08:44:29 PM
i agree that having them take the place of a common would be much better


I very strongly agree , I think it would be much better to have the legacy rare replace a common card spot instead of the Rare spot in booster packs.

 +1

Well I think every player would agree this is better...but they are called Legacy RARES, so my hopes of this happening are pretty small.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on February 12, 2019, 09:34:56 PM
They are still rares if there are only a few per box
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: TheJaylor on February 12, 2019, 09:43:56 PM
My bets for #19 are on A New Beginning (Pa) except it'll be Blue and have a different image. The ability needs to be redone anyway and it's been in the wrong color since FooF so clearly this is a good choice.  ;D
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 12, 2019, 09:50:33 PM
My bets for #19 are on A New Beginning (Pa) except it'll be Blue and have a different image. The ability needs to be redone anyway and it's been in the wrong color since FooF so clearly this is a good choice.  ;D

This was redone as a dominant in FoM so I highly doubt, and IMHO shouldn’t be, updated as an LR.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: TheJaylor on February 13, 2019, 12:23:03 AM
My bets for #19 are on A New Beginning (Pa) except it'll be Blue and have a different image. The ability needs to be redone anyway and it's been in the wrong color since FooF so clearly this is a good choice.  ;D

This was redone as a dominant in FoM so I highly doubt, and IMHO shouldn’t be, updated as an LR.
But I wanna be able to have 9 in T2...
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 13, 2019, 09:24:20 AM
So over the past few months, I've had no less than 4 people use an Egyptian-based Deck Discard strategy against me in T1 games. Here's a LR I'm sure they'll be interested in getting.  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 13, 2019, 10:37:11 AM
That artwork looks awesome. Definitely a worthwhile LR to add to the mix!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 13, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
An afterthought...

Could there be an alternative to “Deck Discard” for the identifier?  The standard for the naming of Lost Souls has recently been related to the verse rather than a description of what it does.

I am not strongly recommending this, but curious what thoughts others would have.  Since it is commonly referred to as the Deck Discard LS now, I could also see keeping its Legacy name.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Josh on February 13, 2019, 10:44:00 AM
Hmmm, with the ruling change that affected Besieging the City and their "Restrict opponents from drawing" ilk, I wonder if BtC will be a LR.  Seems a prime candidate.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 13, 2019, 10:50:49 AM
Hmmm, with the ruling change that affected Besieging the City and their "Restrict opponents from drawing" ilk, I wonder if BtC will be a LR.  Seems a prime candidate.

Since they reprinted Mayhem with the errata wording, this is a very good choice.  Great card as well!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 13, 2019, 10:56:47 AM
An afterthought...

Could there be an alternative to “Deck Discard” for the identifier?  The standard for the naming of Lost Souls has recently been related to the verse rather than a description of what it does.

I am not strongly recommending this, but curious what thoughts others would have.  Since it is commonly referred to as the Deck Discard LS now, I could also see keeping its Legacy name.

While we are doing that going forward, I'm not sure it's worth trying to rename all the old LS that have "ability-based" names.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Master Q on February 13, 2019, 11:26:22 AM
An afterthought...

Could there be an alternative to “Deck Discard” for the identifier?  The standard for the naming of Lost Souls has recently been related to the verse rather than a description of what it does.

I am not strongly recommending this, but curious what thoughts others would have.  Since it is commonly referred to as the Deck Discard LS now, I could also see keeping its Legacy name.

If there had to be a rename, I'd like "Sacrifice" for this one. But "Deck Discard" is ok since everyone already associates the older one with that.

Hmmm, with the ruling change that affected Besieging the City and their "Restrict opponents from drawing" ilk, I wonder if BtC will be a LR.  Seems a prime candidate.

Since they reprinted Mayhem with the errata wording, this is a very good choice.  Great card as well!

Cards like BtC and Words of Discouragement should fade away and never return. :prayer: At least, not in their current forms.


If we're guessing on the potential Genesis card, I would hope for Abraham's Descendant. That would be sweet as a LR.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 13, 2019, 01:53:09 PM
Now entering the ring:

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 13, 2019, 01:59:40 PM
#AreYouNotEntertained
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 13, 2019, 02:04:49 PM
#IsThisNotWhyYouAreHere?
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kor on February 13, 2019, 02:26:41 PM
Now entering the ring:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Nice, looks great and gives me hope for a Nergalsharezzar legacy rare.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: jesse on February 13, 2019, 02:38:56 PM
#ANDIWILLHAVEMYVENGEANCE   :laugh:

Gladiator is a super powerful movie...not unlike that Naaman LR!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Asahel24601 on February 13, 2019, 02:41:49 PM
New Naaman makes me happy. I may have to play Syrians this year just for that.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 13, 2019, 02:42:08 PM
#ANDIWILLHAVEMYVENGEANCE   :laugh:

Gladiator is a super powerful movie...not unlike that Naaman LR!

My favorite movie for sure  8)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 13, 2019, 05:30:30 PM
Now entering the ring:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Can we please move away from the whole “Limit once” wording? This generates a lot of ambiguity and questions as it does not specify WHEN it is being limited. Better options are pre-existing wording such as “limit once per game,” “limit once per round,” or “limit once per turn.” It’s more intuitive to specify when it is being limited, thus preventing any confusion.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 13, 2019, 06:40:27 PM
The next spoiler for today is...

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 13, 2019, 07:01:30 PM
The next spoiler for today is...

Spoiler (hover to show)

For a legacy rare I prefer different card art but that would affect T1 deck building, which would allow the FooF version and the LR to be in the same deck, which may be too much.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 14, 2019, 03:08:35 AM
It's time for late night spoilers!!!  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Josh on February 14, 2019, 11:19:37 AM
Can we please move away from the whole “Limit once” wording? This generates a lot of ambiguity and questions as it does not specify WHEN it is being limited. Better options are pre-existing wording such as “limit once per game,” “limit once per round,” or “limit once per turn.” It’s more intuitive to specify when it is being limited, thus preventing any confusion.

"Limit once" means "Limit once while this card remains in play".  That's why you can use the ability again if the card is reset via shuffle, return to hand, etc.

The space saved on text is why they've made the election to use the wording "Limit once".  Shortcuts like this are scattered throughout Redemption abilities, like "Each upkeep" meaning "Once during your upkeep" and "Each turn" meaning "Once during your turn".

It's up to the Redemption player to memorize these shortcuts.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 14, 2019, 11:36:26 AM
Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 14, 2019, 12:41:59 PM
Justin meant well, but those are not the 2 Bears that will be making a reappearance.

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Asahel24601 on February 14, 2019, 01:14:45 PM
Yay, more green.

On a side note, for cards like Gomer and Two Bears, would changing the art change much? I'd assume that at least Two Bears wouldn't, as it's still the same enhancement (Similar to DoU). Would changing Gomer's art change the number you could run?
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 14, 2019, 01:31:51 PM
No, since she is unique, the brigade would need to change in order to run different versions.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 14, 2019, 02:24:16 PM
Justin meant well, but those are not the 2 Bears that will be making a reappearance.


I mean I googled "Two Bears" and that's what popped up...let me give this another shot...

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 14, 2019, 05:07:32 PM
Now entering the ring:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Looking into the definition of "dual-icon" to make the Hero icon into a reminder than an actual icon...

Would this mean in the future certain cards like The Roman jailer , King of Nineveh will no longer be considered dual icon cards???

 For cards like Covenant of Eden that "negate other dual icon cards"??



 For deck building requirements for type 2 I guess the legacy rare Naaman would be considered a "Neutral card".

Guess we now have an evil card Naaman (tin sets) and a Neutral card Naaman (legacy rare) for type 2 deck building purposes.

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 14, 2019, 05:32:56 PM
Just a reminder to everyone that the PoC related cards (ph 1 and 2 and LRs) are being updated on the original PoC spoiler page if you want to see a list of the most recent spoiled cards.

http://www.cactusforums.com/card-information/prophecies-of-christ-(spoiler-thread)/msg589494/#msg589494 (http://www.cactusforums.com/card-information/prophecies-of-christ-(spoiler-thread)/msg589494/#msg589494)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kor on February 14, 2019, 05:35:53 PM
Now entering the ring:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Looking into the definition of "dual-icon" to make the Hero icon into a reminder than an actual icon...

Would this mean in the future certain cards like The Roman jailer , King of Nineveh will no longer be considered dual icon cards???

 For cards like Covenant of Eden that "negate other dual icon cards"??



 For deck building requirements for type 2 I guess the legacy rare Naaman would be considered a "Neutral card".

Guess we now have an evil card Naaman (tin sets) and a Neutral card Naaman (legacy rare) for type 2 deck building purposes.

I’m pretty sure both Naamans are evil for T2 deck building purposes.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: EmJayBee83 on February 14, 2019, 05:45:36 PM
I’m pretty sure both Naamans are evil for T2 deck building purposes.
Correct. Just as is the case for Saul/Paul.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Bobbert on February 14, 2019, 06:32:05 PM
Just a reminder to everyone that the PoC related cards (ph 1 and 2 and LRs) are being updated on the original PoC spoiler page if you want to see a list of the most recent spoiled cards.

http://www.cactusforums.com/card-information/prophecies-of-christ-(spoiler-thread)/msg589494/#msg589494 (http://www.cactusforums.com/card-information/prophecies-of-christ-(spoiler-thread)/msg589494/#msg589494)

Just in case those with the ability to fix it are unaware, the commons on that page are not updated (and several of them changed between the first reveal and the final release).
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 14, 2019, 07:53:09 PM
Now entering the ring:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Looking into the definition of "dual-icon" to make the Hero icon into a reminder than an actual icon...

Would this mean in the future certain cards like The Roman jailer , King of Nineveh will no longer be considered dual icon cards???

 For cards like Covenant of Eden that "negate other dual icon cards"??



 For deck building requirements for type 2 I guess the legacy rare Naaman would be considered a "Neutral card".

Guess we now have an evil card Naaman (tin sets) and a Neutral card Naaman (legacy rare) for type 2 deck building purposes.

I’m pretty sure both Naamans are evil for T2 deck building purposes.


oh that's right because the card starts out as an evil character by default...
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 14, 2019, 08:49:20 PM
I'm very excited about this classic card getting brand new art that looks amazing!

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kevinthedude on February 14, 2019, 09:29:55 PM
I'm very excited about this classic card getting brand new art that looks amazing!

Spoiler (hover to show)

Now this is one I may actually have to hang on to.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 15, 2019, 08:41:23 AM
Seems like a variety of brigades.

With a good amount of Daniel support, I have to expect a Great Image for crimson. Possibly the Daniel Gabriel or Michael for silver?
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 15, 2019, 09:07:38 AM
Seems like a variety of brigades.

With a good amount of Daniel support, I have to expect a Great Image for crimson. Possibly the Daniel Gabriel or Michael for silver?

Those are all really great guesses! Every name you mentioned was on our list as we narrowed it down to the final 18 LRs for this year. We’ll have to see if any of them made the final cut.  ;)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 15, 2019, 10:02:25 AM
Cool. Looking forward to it.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 15, 2019, 10:49:09 AM
Seems like a variety of brigades.

With a good amount of Daniel support, I have to expect a Great Image for crimson. Possibly the Daniel Gabriel or Michael for silver?

I figure that a Michael LR would be one with a Daniel reference for sure.  I have a whole list of cards I feel could be LRs,  and Michael & Great Image were at the top of my list too!

*So I went back and looked at my list and it has 623 cards that I put could be a LR.  Now all I did was remove stuff that no longer "fits" into each brigade.  I'm going to go back through and remove stuff I feel is either too weak or too powerful as is, and I'm sure that will lower the number.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 15, 2019, 12:31:59 PM
623 cards. That’s good info.

While that number will surely decrease with the amount of cards that are remade vs reprinted, that is a good supply of LRs to last quite a few sets.

I definitely enjoy the LR concept.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 15, 2019, 12:39:14 PM
623 cards. That’s good info.

While that number will surely decrease with the amount of cards that are remade vs reprinted, that is a good supply of LRs to last quite a few sets.

I definitely enjoy the LR concept.

As we saw from Moses last year, reprints don't really keep an older card from being reprinted, but I did remove several cards that got reprinted in a "similar fashion."  I felt the old Eve's Descendant was a probable LR card, but the reprint is close enough and an upgrade so it is no longer on the list.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 15, 2019, 12:56:14 PM
Here's a LR whose original version hasn't seen a ton of play (at least from my experience), but probably will after the release of PoC Phase 2...  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 15, 2019, 01:12:12 PM
623 cards. That’s good info.

While that number will surely decrease with the amount of cards that are remade vs reprinted, that is a good supply of LRs to last quite a few sets.

I definitely enjoy the LR concept.

As we saw from Moses last year, reprints don't really keep an older card from being reprinted, but I did remove several cards that got reprinted in a "similar fashion."  I felt the old Eve's Descendant was a probable LR card, but the reprint is close enough and an upgrade so it is no longer on the list.

Valid
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 15, 2019, 01:37:35 PM
Any chance there is going to be a legacy rare character card that is generic with a different art to it for the PoC set?? (similar to spy and Sabbath breaker)

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Josh on February 15, 2019, 01:40:56 PM
Here's a LR whose original version hasn't seen a ton of play (at least from my experience), but probably will after the release of PoC Phase 2...  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)

I checked the old version (https://redemption.fandom.com/wiki/Cherubim_(FF2)), and clearly the art is different between these two.  Being borderless shows like 40% more of the original art!  QED, different cards!

#8CherubimT2Deck #DistractTheDeckChecker #JustinWillProllyRuinMyFun
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 15, 2019, 01:50:24 PM
If you come to this year's T2 Only, I will let you use an 8 Cherubim T2 deck for that tournament and that tournament only.  8)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 15, 2019, 01:51:43 PM
Here's a LR whose original version hasn't seen a ton of play (at least from my experience), but probably will after the release of PoC Phase 2...  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)

I checked the old version (https://redemption.fandom.com/wiki/Cherubim_(FF2)), and clearly the art is different between these two.  Being borderless shows like 40% more of the original art!  QED, different cards!

#8CherubimT2Deck #DistractTheDeckChecker #JustinWillProllyRuinMyFun

I meant more so , a different picture to the card all together on a generic character card. (Like the different pictures of elders of Jerusalem )
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 15, 2019, 02:35:16 PM
Today's next LR preview is...

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kor on February 15, 2019, 02:48:34 PM
Today's next LR preview is...

Spoiler (hover to show)

Good choice, that is a solid card.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Josh on February 15, 2019, 02:49:43 PM
If you come to this year's T2 Only, I will let you use an 8 Cherubim T2 deck for that tournament and that tournament only.  8)

Everything about this sounds great except for the part where I have to play T2
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Crashfach2002 on February 15, 2019, 02:53:02 PM
If you come to this year's T2 Only, I will let you use an 8 Cherubim T2 deck for that tournament and that tournament only.  8)

Everything about this sounds great except for the part where I have to play T2

Ouch!  Honestly, ever since I started playing Type 2, I have little to no desire to play T1.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 15, 2019, 03:40:25 PM
If you come to this year's T2 Only, I will let you use an 8 Cherubim T2 deck for that tournament and that tournament only.  8)

Everything about this sounds great except for the part where I have to play T2

Ouch!  Honestly, ever since I started playing Type 2, I have little to no desire to play T1.


This is exactly how I feel about Type 2.  I too have little to no desire to play Type 1. :) :)

Type 2 you can have bigger decks , way more combo ideas can be created :) :)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 15, 2019, 08:50:20 PM
Reposting this for RDT...

Last preview of the day!

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 16, 2019, 08:55:41 AM
Hmm.  That’s a disappointing start to a Saturday. Almost 8am (here) and no new spoils yet...

  :o
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 16, 2019, 10:18:04 AM
[...]
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: redemption collector 777 on February 16, 2019, 10:20:12 AM
Hmm.  That’s a disappointing start to a Saturday. Almost 8am (here) and no new spoils yet...

  :o


I was kinda hoping for some spoilers today as well.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 16, 2019, 10:58:23 AM
Well, I suppose if you guys want some weekend spoilers we can start with this Great card

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Master Q on February 16, 2019, 11:13:06 AM
^ That's actually a card whose original artwork I really like- one of the few from the oldest sets at all. Is it not conducive to the newer format?

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 16, 2019, 11:32:49 AM
^ That's actually a card whose original artwork I really like- one of the few from the oldest sets at all. Is it not conducive to the newer format?

Spoiler (hover to show)

We really like the original piece as well. Unfortunately, despite multiple searches by our art experts and Rob himself we cannot find the original piece
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 16, 2019, 01:29:24 PM
Cactus is all out of this awesome promo. Seems like a great time to bring it back with the new look!

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 16, 2019, 01:30:56 PM
#HereKittyKitty
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 16, 2019, 01:45:46 PM
Cactus is all out of this awesome promo. Seems like a great time to bring it back with the new look!

Spoiler (hover to show)

I was hoping that’s what you meant when you responded to my earlier message.

While I didn’t mention Daniel as an option, his name was in the message.

I’m excited about this one.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 16, 2019, 01:48:45 PM
Well, I suppose if you guys want some weekend spoilers we can start with this Great card

Spoiler (hover to show)

Were there other options for this?  The image looks to be completely Gold in this picture...

**Edit** In looking for the original image online and/or an alternative, the picture on the card is of the golden statue built by Nebuchadnezzar that everyone needed to bow to, and not the Great Image from his dream, so this picture is not biblically accurate.

If nothing else, I would propose the image that is currently used for Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream which shows Neb as well as the image.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: SiLeNcEd_MaTrIx on February 16, 2019, 03:32:22 PM
The art you all are getting on these legacy rares for the ones with new images are pretty sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!  Love the great image one!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Bobbert on February 16, 2019, 04:12:32 PM
I don't know if it was copied or not, but there's a typo/grammatical mistake in Great Image's reference. "It's" is "it is", so currently the last part of the verse says "and it is appearance was awesome"
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 16, 2019, 04:19:03 PM
I don't know if it was copied or not, but there's a typo/grammatical mistake in Great Image's reference. "It's" is "it is", so currently the last part of the verse says "and it is appearance was awesome"

That’s a great catch.

Appearance is also misspelled in the verse on the card.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: ChristianSoldier on February 16, 2019, 04:44:46 PM
I don't know if it was copied or not, but there's a typo/grammatical mistake in Great Image's reference. "It's" is "it is", so currently the last part of the verse says "and it is appearance was awesome"

To further correct this, I'm pretty sure "it's" means it is while "its" is the possessive.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 16, 2019, 08:57:43 PM
These dudes have long been one of my favorite ECs... really looking forward to having a new look for them.  8)
Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Isildur on February 16, 2019, 10:16:34 PM
^ That's actually a card whose original artwork I really like- one of the few from the oldest sets at all. Is it not conducive to the newer format?

Spoiler (hover to show)

We really like the original piece as well. Unfortunately, despite multiple searches by our art experts and Rob himself we cannot find the original piece
Did anyone contact Michael Carroll?.... He's still alive.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 17, 2019, 12:37:07 AM
Interesting idea--I found an artist by that name through a Google search, but can't really confirm if it's the same guy. He seems to be more known for space related illustrations. If anyone can figure out if that's him we could give it a shot.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Isildur on February 17, 2019, 05:26:35 AM
Interesting idea--I found an artist by that name through a Google search, but can't really confirm if it's the same guy. He seems to be more known for space related illustrations. If anyone can figure out if that's him we could give it a shot.
Seems I got Mark Poole and Michael Carroll mixed up in my memory. Poole is a prolific MTG and fantasy artist. He did the art for OG Samson, Red Dragon and a number of other cards from the Blue packs and Prophets. I know Poole isn't super hard to get in contact with... but that's beside the point I guess.

I'll do some more googling tomorrow but it seems like our Mr.Carroll and space Mr.Carroll have a similar art style at least.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Isildur on February 17, 2019, 05:36:18 AM
It's possible Doug Gray might have his info too... or at the very least remember more about him.

Looks like he contributed art at least up through Pats. Apparently, Michael Carroll did the art for Solomons Temple.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 17, 2019, 06:54:40 AM
Interesting idea--I found an artist by that name through a Google search, but can't really confirm if it's the same guy. He seems to be more known for space related illustrations. If anyone can figure out if that's him we could give it a shot.

I sent this Michael Carroll a message asking if he was the same one or not. Of note, this Carroll who does space art has also illustrated Creation-related space books for kids, so it’s most likely the same Carroll. I’ll let everyone know if I hear back from him.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 17, 2019, 09:18:07 AM
Good detective work to try to track down the original Great Image artwork, guys! Thanks for reaching out to him, Derek!

Here's the last LR preview I get to share with you. I've enjoyed playing this card in a number of decks over the years. I feel like it has the most value in MP.

Spoiler (hover to show)

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 17, 2019, 09:32:14 AM
Good detective work to try to track down the original Great Image artwork, guys! Thanks for reaching out to him, Derek!

Glad to do my part. Doing detective work is my day job, afterall. ;)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: 777Godspeed on February 17, 2019, 09:57:21 AM
These dudes have long been one of my favorite ECs... really looking forward to having a new look for them.  8)
Spoiler (hover to show)

I like the new Astrologers. My only hiccup is the ability wording "and opponent must discard their card in territory" feels a little wonky. Maybe something like "and opponent must discard a card in their territory" or "and opponent must discard a card from their territory". It is just a feeling and I know it will go away. Otherwise, beautiful full art Legacy Rare.

Godspeed,
Mike
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 17, 2019, 11:12:43 AM
These dudes have long been one of my favorite ECs... really looking forward to having a new look for them.  8)
Spoiler (hover to show)

I like the new Astrologers. My only hiccup is the ability wording "and opponent must discard their card in territory" feels a little wonky. Maybe something like "and opponent must discard a card in their territory" or "and opponent must discard a card from their territory". It is just a feeling and I know it will go away. Otherwise, beautiful full art Legacy Rare.

Godspeed,
Mike

Good point, Mike. As it reads I could see it meaning that the opponent has to discard their card from your territory which is either confusing language or very different than the original Astrologers. I'll update the wording provided the other guys on the team agree.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Master Q on February 17, 2019, 12:45:06 PM
These dudes have long been one of my favorite ECs... really looking forward to having a new look for them.  8)
Spoiler (hover to show)

I like the new Astrologers. My only hiccup is the ability wording "and opponent must discard their card in territory" feels a little wonky. Maybe something like "and opponent must discard a card in their territory" or "and opponent must discard a card from their territory". It is just a feeling and I know it will go away. Otherwise, beautiful full art Legacy Rare.

Godspeed,
Mike

Good point, Mike. As it reads I could see it meaning that the opponent has to discard their card from your territory which is either confusing language or very different than the original Astrologers. I'll update the wording provided the other guys on the team agree.

Doing that will change the ability from the original, ever so slightly. As it is now, the opponent must own the card they discard (their card). Were it to be changed (a card in their territory), it could mean they discard something like Destructive Sin or another card they don't necessarily own, but have on their playing side.

Might not make much of a difference, but it would be different from the original.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 17, 2019, 02:02:20 PM
Update to the Great Image artwork:

I received a reply and he is the same Michael Carroll who did the GI artwork. Unfortunately, he no longer has the original image. He stated, however, that perhaps he could do an updated one and requested Rob Anderson’s contact info, which I provided him with.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 17, 2019, 03:21:52 PM
Ahhhh, one of my all-time favorite cards is getting a sweet new look...now I just gotta get Doug Gray to sign one of these for me since I have a signed version of the original.  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Isildur on February 17, 2019, 03:35:45 PM
Update to the Great Image artwork:

I received a reply and he is the same Michael Carroll who did the GI artwork. Unfortunately, he no longer has the original image. He stated, however, that perhaps he could do an updated one and requested Rob Anderson’s contact info, which I provided him with.
Wow, I can't believe contacting him worked hahaha. I love the internet. I thought we were going to have to track down Rob or Doug's old Rolodex in a box, in some storage unit or attic, to find this guy.

I'm sure if he makes an updated one he will ask for a commission. If he does I think this would be an appropriate time to blow off the entire art budget on one card.

If needed maybe we could also do crowdfunding. Donate at least $20 and you get a free copy. Donate $50 you got a box of Prophets and a free copy. Donate $80 you get a box of Prophets, a personal thank you letter from Rob and the Elders and a free copy... ect. Just ideas.

Considering how iconic the art is for the history of Redemption and the fact we were able to find this guy, I think we as a community can go out of our way to make this happen. :)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 17, 2019, 05:11:12 PM
So we're down to one last Legacy Rare to be revealed!

Let's play a little guessing game and see if we can figure out what it is!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: ChristianSoldier on February 17, 2019, 05:14:29 PM
So we're down to one last Legacy Rare to be revealed!

Let's play a little guessing game and see if we can figure out what it is!

I'm going to guess A Child is Born or Mary's Prophetic Act. Either way, both are old Promos that fit very well in the theme of Prophesies of Christ.

I would also be amused if it was Son of God... not because it needs to be a legacy rare, but because it would be cool to be one.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 17, 2019, 05:15:19 PM
We should probably offer clues so I'll begin with one...

The last will be the first... ::)

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 17, 2019, 05:22:31 PM
We should probably offer clues so I'll begin with one...

The last will be the first... ::)

I know what it is and it too me a while to figure out how that clue applied. No Secrets... I can be pretty dense.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Asahel24601 on February 17, 2019, 06:04:52 PM
So, we know that the reference is somewhere past Zechariah 3:1 (as there's no gap for it in the reveals for it and Joshua's reference has to come before it. So either it's Malachi or N.T. (I'm going to assume the latter simply because of the volume of content). With those clues, I'm going to guess Saphiria?
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 17, 2019, 06:14:23 PM
Yes to N.T. No to Sapphira, or any other character for that matter
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: jesse on February 17, 2019, 06:15:51 PM
The last will be the first makes me think of a servant, so maybe Watchful Servant?

Edit: oh but I see RDT just said it's not a character...
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: ChristianSoldier on February 17, 2019, 06:43:18 PM
It could be Authority of Christ.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Asahel24601 on February 17, 2019, 06:49:39 PM
Deceit of Saphiria, then?
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 17, 2019, 06:57:18 PM
We should probably offer clues so I'll begin with one...

The last will be the first... ::)

I know what it is and it too me a while to figure out how that clue applied. No Secrets... I can be pretty dense.

Well it wouldn't have been as much fun if we had starter off with an easy clue now would it... ::)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Master Q on February 17, 2019, 07:01:48 PM
If it's not Grapes I'll be disappointed...
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 17, 2019, 07:04:08 PM
If it's not Grapes I'll be disappointed...

It's not Grapes
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 17, 2019, 07:09:26 PM
The Lost Souls card.

The first shall be last and the last shall be first. Lost Souls abuse can accomplish that.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Wing on February 17, 2019, 07:11:12 PM
Liner is OT though. Also I doubt they would reprint a banned card.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 17, 2019, 07:14:04 PM
Liner is OT though. Also I doubt they would reprint a banned card.

I guess my attempt at humor could be confusing to some if they are not aware of the ban.

However, on a more serious note, because it fits all and goes along with POC, my guess is:

Birth Foretold
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Master Q on February 17, 2019, 07:25:25 PM
If it's not Grapes I'll be disappointed...

It's not Grapes

Spoiler (hover to show)

A Revealer LR would be cool if the original art was somehow obtained. Otherwise I have no more guesses.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 17, 2019, 07:31:05 PM
If memory serves we did discuss Revealer, but there was an issue. Either Rob doesn't want to re-use any Angel Wars art or we decided we'd much rather use that particular artwork on a much better card (or an upgraded version of Revealer). I don't recall which it was though...
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 17, 2019, 07:43:49 PM
We might need a new clue giving philosophy here, seems like we're not getting very far
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Asahel24601 on February 17, 2019, 08:34:16 PM
We might need a new clue giving philosophy here, seems like we're not getting very far

So, Philosophy is technically an N.T. enhancement on good. I doubt that's it, and I'm probably grasping at straws, but...
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: ChristianSoldier on February 17, 2019, 08:40:00 PM
We might need a new clue giving philosophy here, seems like we're not getting very far

So, Philosophy is technically an N.T. enhancement on good. I doubt that's it, and I'm probably grasping at straws, but...

It could also be Vain Philosophy.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on February 17, 2019, 08:46:30 PM
We might need a new clue giving philosophy here, seems like we're not getting very far

So, Philosophy is technically an N.T. enhancement on good. I doubt that's it, and I'm probably grasping at straws, but...

It could also be Vain Philosophy.

Do we have a winner?

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 17, 2019, 08:52:20 PM
We should probably offer clues so I'll begin with one...

The last will be the first... ::)



This will be the first Legacy Rare from a card that's already on the new card face.  8)


Well it wouldn't have been as much fun if we had starter off with an easy clue now would it... ::)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: ChristianSoldier on February 17, 2019, 08:58:58 PM
We should probably offer clues so I'll begin with one...

The last will be the first... ::)



This will be the first Legacy Rare from a card that's already on the new card face.  8)

While I did realize that (it was one of the reasons I wasn't thinking about the fourth edition starter deck much), that was not what I got out of the clue... I kinda misremembered it and thought "first will be last" and since Vain Philosophy puts a card from hand at the bottom of a deck (hand is first and bottom of deck is last)... but then again at that point I just ran through all the clues in my head and made sure it nothing was completely off.


Well it wouldn't have been as much fun if we had starter off with an easy clue now would it... ::)

This clue was really helpful... in addition to the one that said "Philosophy".
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 17, 2019, 10:07:44 PM
Why was VP chosen to be a legacy rare? Seems too contemporary to take up a LR slot when there are older cards that could use updating.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 17, 2019, 10:29:12 PM
Why was VP chosen to be a legacy rare? Seems too contemporary to take up a LR slot when there are older cards that could use updating.

Seems to me that someone might have wanted more dominants with full card art...

 :D
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on February 17, 2019, 10:31:14 PM
You can’t fully understand until you see how Vain we’ve become in phase 2. Even then you still might not approve, but at least it’ll make more sense.  ;D
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on February 17, 2019, 10:34:43 PM
You can’t fully understand until you see how Vain we’ve become in phase 2. Even then you still might not approve, but at least it’ll make more sense.  ;D

Well that’s interesting. I definitely like VP and used it in competitive decks so I’m curious to see how it ties in to phase II.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kevinthedude on February 18, 2019, 12:12:14 AM
You can’t fully understand until you see how Vain we’ve become in phase 2. Even then you still might not approve, but at least it’ll make more sense.  ;D

Speaking of phase 2, any chance we'll start getting some spoilers for that in addition to the LRs? I heard there are some pretty neat cards in there ;D
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: 777Godspeed on February 18, 2019, 09:41:43 AM
These dudes have long been one of my favorite ECs... really looking forward to having a new look for them.  8)
Spoiler (hover to show)

I like the new Astrologers. My only hiccup is the ability wording "and opponent must discard their card in territory" feels a little wonky. Maybe something like "and opponent must discard a card in their territory" or "and opponent must discard a card from their territory". It is just a feeling and I know it will go away. Otherwise, beautiful full art Legacy Rare.

Godspeed,
Mike

Good point, Mike. As it reads I could see it meaning that the opponent has to discard their card from your territory which is either confusing language or very different than the original Astrologers. I'll update the wording provided the other guys on the team agree.

Doing that will change the ability from the original, ever so slightly. As it is now, the opponent must own the card they discard (their card). Were it to be changed (a card in their territory), it could mean they discard something like Destructive Sin or another card they don't necessarily own, but have on their playing side.

Might not make much of a difference, but it would be different from the original.

I agree with you on this, so I went back to see how much of a difference it might make. It seems the current wording would also allow your opponent to discard one of their Lost Souls. The wording on the TxP version does not allow that to happen. I think the current wording on the LR should really be looked at for unintended consequences.

Godspeed,
Mike

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Bobbert on February 18, 2019, 09:52:41 AM
My understanding is that the rules have been updated to say that only cards that specifically discard souls are allowed to target them. Even something like Corrupt Earth, which reads "Discard a card.", can't target a soul.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: 777Godspeed on February 18, 2019, 10:27:38 AM
If a site with a soul in it was targeted for discard would the soul follow? I don't have the REG handy at the moment.

Godspeed,
Mike
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 18, 2019, 10:32:55 AM
If a site with a soul in it was targeted for discard would the soul follow? I don't have the REG handy at the moment.

Godspeed,
Mike

No -- LS only follow a site if a special ability also targets the contents of the site (i.e. Hormah).
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Josh on February 19, 2019, 02:10:00 PM
Ahhhh, one of my all-time favorite cards is getting a sweet new look...now I just gotta get Doug Gray to sign one of these for me since I have a signed version of the original.  8)

Spoiler (hover to show)

I live 30 minutes from Doug Gray.  He hosts a board gaming club on the 3rd Saturday of every month at the Millersburg (OH) Library.  When I pull one of these, I'll get his signature and mail it to you.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on February 19, 2019, 02:24:52 PM
That would be amazing!!!
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: thecoolguy on February 19, 2019, 05:15:30 PM
Ya know since there is already a Balaam LR and now showing for a CoM LR a Covenant with Death LR would make A Covenant with Death deck wayyy cooler.
I am hoping for a Covenant with Death LR if you couldn't tell, or a Rams Horn LR now THAT would be awesome.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Josh on February 19, 2019, 05:34:42 PM
Ya know since there is already a Balaam LR and now showing for a CoM LR a Covenant with Death LR would make A Covenant with Death deck wayyy cooler.
I am hoping for a Covenant with Death LR if you couldn't tell, or a Rams Horn LR now THAT would be awesome.

Ram's Horn, granting blanket CBI to enhancements used by warriors and priests (a large group of heroes), probably won't get a reprint in my opinion.  It was a crucial piece of the Children of the Light combo where you couldn't do anything about CotL due to CBI protection.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: thecoolguy on February 19, 2019, 05:37:23 PM
Yeah.... understandable am I the only one that misses coney??? Yo I loved playing it and against it. it was so fun. any ways heres hoping for CoD?
(I just realized Covenant of Death has the same initials as Call of Duty  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: )
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kevinthedude on February 19, 2019, 05:50:22 PM
Yeah.... understandable am I the only one that misses coney??? Yo I loved playing it and against it. it was so fun. any ways heres hoping for CoD?
(I just realized Covenant of Death has the same initials as Call of Duty  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: )

I have played a rather large number of games with CoL and it certainly is fun to play but I think you are in the extreme minority for considering it fun to play against ::)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Bobbert on February 19, 2019, 06:34:27 PM
(I just realized Covenant of Death has the same initials as Call of Duty  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: )

It's technically Covenant With Death. I usually call it "See dub dee"

When FoM was coming out there was some discussion about a couple cards that were considered for LR status but didn't make the cut because they were a bit imbalanced (Zeal was one, IIRC). As much as I love it (both in-game and as a concept), I wouldn't be surprised to see CwD in that group as well. Its ability to shut down decks means that any deck that can run it more or less unimpeded (and get it out in time to matter) has a huge advantage. Then again, Golden Calf is basically just a watered-down version, so maybe we'll still see one. I hope we do.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: thecoolguy on February 19, 2019, 08:12:52 PM
Yeah thats what I thought.... it would be awesome tho  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: . I loved coney tho  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  and I think your right I am among the minority that likes it :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: TheHobbit13 on February 20, 2019, 12:06:51 PM
Honestly, Legacy Rares are such a buzz kill. What a terrible idea to switch out the rare in a new pack of cards with an older card that most players already have. The art is very cool but would much rather see them being inserted less frequently as an extra card or in place of a common.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: goalieking87 on February 25, 2019, 10:02:40 PM
Update to the Great Image artwork:

I received a reply and he is the same Michael Carroll who did the GI artwork. Unfortunately, he no longer has the original image. He stated, however, that perhaps he could do an updated one and requested Rob Anderson’s contact info, which I provided him with.

Just curious if there has been any movement here?  I know it is still being worked out if LRs will be released with PoC2 or after the sets are combined, but if the goal would be with PoC2 release them I am wondering how long it will take to recreate the Great Image art.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Gabe on March 27, 2019, 09:29:01 AM
We found and obtained the rights to use a new piece of art for Assyrian Archers LR. Since it is a generic character this will allow 2 in T1 and 8 in T2. We're especially looking for feedback from T2 players as to whether or not they feel that is a problem.

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: thecoolguy on March 27, 2019, 09:38:24 AM
I feel it could be a potential threat because you could make ten CBP with Jericho as long as you can give your opponent a cloud hero and then that isn’t a CBP potential 8 hero’s killed in the territory wich could be a bad thing but idk if that would be a scary thing or an awesome thing to add to redemption
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Bobbert on March 27, 2019, 10:10:54 AM
I'm a little torn. On one hand I don't think it's that much of a problem. Assyrians have so many good generic characters that it's unlikely you'll want to fit in eight Archers when you could run Survivors and a couple Siege Armies instead. Maybe like six, but I don't think eight will be common.

On the other hand, the old Archer+2kH+FH combo is even better when you're discarding eight heroes in opponent's territory.

Love the art, though.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on March 27, 2019, 10:33:41 AM
I'm a little torn. On one hand I don't think it's that much of a problem. Assyrians have so many good generic characters that it's unlikely you'll want to fit in eight Archers when you could run Survivors and a couple Siege Armies instead. Maybe like six, but I don't think eight will be common.

On the other hand, the old Archer+2kH+FH combo is even better when you're discarding eight heroes in opponent's territory.

Love the art, though.

My thoughts are similar although it's not the "8 Hero discard" I'm concerned about because that will be fairly uncommon (and anyone who walks into that deserves what they get). However, it's the consistency that the "3-4 Hero + Artifact/Fort discard" would now have, which players might be forced to walk into or just sit there stuck.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Sean on March 27, 2019, 10:37:09 AM
I do think 8 archers is a bit much but we definitely need art like this. 

If it has to be toned down maybe limit the number per deck with an identifier?  Or maybe alter the special ability in some way to limit the strength?  The scripture is a prophesy against Assyria so there could be a tie in there either with Isaiah, King Hezekiah, or something along those lines?

Quote
or just sit there stuck.
Might you say they would be pinned down?  Like with an arrow?  8)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on March 27, 2019, 11:18:53 AM
Quote
If it has to be toned down maybe limit the number per deck with an identifier?  Or maybe alter the special ability in some way to limit the strength?  The scripture is a prophesy against Assyria so there could be a tie in there either with Isaiah, King Hezekiah, or something along those lines?

Since this is a Legacy Rare, we are not going to be changing the card at all except to print it on the new card face and potentially give it the new artwork. However, because of the deck building rules with generic characters, players would be able to use both versions in a 50 card T1 deck or 4 copies of each version in a T2 deck (like they can use all versions of characters like Pharisees and Sadducees).
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Sean on March 27, 2019, 12:06:16 PM
If we're willing to change the art why stuck on the special ability? (just curious)
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kor on March 27, 2019, 12:42:01 PM
We found and obtained the rights to use a new piece of art for Assyrian Archers LR. Since it is a generic character this will allow 2 in T1 and 8 in T2. We're especially looking for feedback from T2 players as to whether or not they feel that is a problem.

Spoiler (hover to show)

First off, that new art looks so much better, great job.

Secondly, for T2 Archers:

This is not even close to being a problem.  The 'dream scenario' of you having all 8 archers, siege army, horses and forgotten history PLUS your opponent having 8 unprotected heroes in territory will never happen.  As The Guardian says, the 3-4 plus siege is much more likely, but still not a problem, because if it was a problem, it would already be happening!  Archers of Kedar could easily fill in for copies 5-8, and 4x The Deceiver could also add the extra consistancy.  Actually that would arguably be better anyway because you would gain access to an additional color for another 4x end the battle. 

Are these decks running around dominating right now? No.  Why?  The big reason is: The effect doesn't scale well.  What that means is, generally there might be 1 or 2 Heroes in a territory that you care about killing on any given turn.  Anything beyond that is just wasted.  And after you do that once or twice your opponent will probably not have any Heroes in territory so the effect will do nothing.  And if you are not using the interrupt>end the battle trick, you are really just trading 1 for 1 evil cards for Heroes which isn't particularly groundbreaking either.  At that rate I would rather just have 4 Babylonians in territory and use Nergalsharezzar>Horses>Head of Gold and capture important evil characters as well!  Or use Great Image and kill all opponent's Heroes with just 1 card (side note, Great Image doesn't even make the cut in my decks).  Or use Magic Charms and 2 for 1.  Or use Haman's Plot and 3 for 1. ETC.

Please do not let unfounded fear prevent us from getting an AMAZING looking new art for this card.

Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: The Guardian on March 27, 2019, 12:57:24 PM
Coming from someone who is admittedly a bit concerned, I think you make a lot of great points.

There are a few counter points to your arguments though. The Archers of Kedar example is definitely worth noting, but you still need to have at least 1 Pale Green EC to play the Horses/FH on therefore the consistency will be somewhat less than just a straight 8 pale green Archers.

With Great Image, yes it does all the discarding with 1 card, but that's all it does. It does not give you the opportunity to win the current battle. If all the Archers could do was band and use weapons, they'd still be worth playing (at least a couple) but it's the addition of the free discard potential that really makes them strong. There's also multi-player to consider...shooting 8 Heroes every time you're attacked is actually kind of feasible in a 4 player multi-player game--especially if one player has protected Heroes and just wants to let you shoot everyone else on the table.  :P
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Kor on March 27, 2019, 01:15:03 PM
Coming from someone who is admittedly a bit concerned, I think you make a lot of great points.

There are a few counter points to your arguments though. The Archers of Kedar example is definitely worth noting, but you still need to have at least 1 Pale Green EC to play the Horses/FH on therefore the consistency will be somewhat less than just a straight 8 pale green Archers.

With Great Image, yes it does all the discarding with 1 card, but that's all it does. It does not give you the opportunity to win the current battle. If all the Archers could do was band and use weapons, they'd still be worth playing (at least a couple) but it's the addition of the free discard potential that really makes them strong. There's also multi-player to consider...shooting 8 Heroes every time you're attacked is actually kind of feasible in a 4 player multi-player game--especially if one player has protected Heroes and just wants to let you shoot everyone else on the table.  :P
.

It is as you say copies 1-2 are decent even without the discard (and the deceiver can find those).  Copies 3-8 are not. After the first couple copies I would much rather have something else to give me options.

As for multiplayer, I tend to find archers to be very risky, as they tend to get banded to on someone else’s turn and then kill off my heroes and themselves putting me very far behind.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: thecoolguy on March 27, 2019, 03:02:02 PM
I would run 8 copies I think it could be a fun idea even without the well known combo there are still plenty of other fun combos that could be used with therefor sure
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: TheJaylor on March 27, 2019, 03:17:08 PM
I don't think I've used four Assyrian Archers in any Assyrian defense in the last 5+ years. Maybe that's a mistake on my end, but I don't really think it would be that much of an issue. 8 Archers would generally be about half your ECs in most T2 decks and with all the options currently available and some of the best also being generic (ASA and Survivor). It has potential to be pretty good but I don't find it too worrisome.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: thecoolguy on March 27, 2019, 03:58:58 PM
there is this card called Caracases that makes discard abilities on EE CBN so idk how many pale green discard cards there are out there but I do know that 8 archers would make it that much more fun and could help in a territory control defense. which could be fun
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Isildur on March 27, 2019, 09:08:45 PM
I don't know about anyone else... but I find the original art to be nostalgic and would prefer that. The original art isn't horrible either, unlike the original Nero's art.
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: jbeers285 on March 27, 2019, 10:59:08 PM
if a set rotation is going to happen eventually with new card faces (i believe this was part of the thought of LR's) if it proves to be a problem it goes away when rotation begins
Title: Re: ***SPOILERS*** PoC Legacy Rare Previews
Post by: Watchman on March 29, 2019, 07:08:04 PM
We found and obtained the rights to use a new piece of art for Assyrian Archers LR. Since it is a generic character this will allow 2 in T1 and 8 in T2. We're especially looking for feedback from T2 players as to whether or not they feel that is a problem.

Spoiler (hover to show)

PLEASE use this new art!  I'm not a T2 player but I feel it's fine for T1.
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